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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: Point sizes and the future of tournaments? (Poll) rss

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Joseph Woodworth
Japan
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With wave 3, my fleet has grown to the point where I can fairly easily post 500 point games. Granted, not everyone has a large fleet, but, even with a single core set and one of each expansion - it's easy to build lists that are larger than 100 points.

Of course, there are many drawbacks, with larger games easily taking more and more time. I've found that 100 points is just too constraining for me, and while it can be a fun challenge to build for 100 points, with enough ships available, it can still be challenging to build at larger point size.

So - The question I have is, what do you think about the future of the game? Would you like to see larger point values become standard for tournaments? What kind of point size do you think maintains a good balance of points, choice constraints, game balance and time?

Poll: game point size
What's the best point size for games, for you?
< 100
100
150
200
250
> 300
      91 answers
Poll created by ravncat


(I've left off choices beyond 300, because when you reach four or five hundred point games, they become very long. (multiple hours) And in my opinion, likely too long for tournament play, and thus have just lumped those large point values together.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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The problem with >100 point matches is they take a lot longer than 100 point matches. In my area, we already have trouble squeezing 4x 75-minute rounds of Swiss in between 11am and 5pm (often run on Sundays when stores close early). 150 point matches demand 90 minutes, and then you either need 9am-5pm, or you need to play Saturday from 12pm-8pm or split it over 2 days. If you need 5 rounds (3 Swiss + Championship bracket) to decide a larger tournament, it's even worse.

Having said that, I really like the "Escalation" tournament structure that FFG is running at World Championship weekend. It keeps the total tournament duration down while forcing various squad-building restrictions that includes a 150 point squad (and 90-minutes to play that round).
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Joseph Woodworth
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That format looks interesting to me - Part of me would like to see a de-escelation format, which is the same, but starts at 150 points and works its way down...
 
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Jeff Dunford
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ravncat wrote:
That format looks interesting to me - Part of me would like to see a de-escelation format, which is the same, but starts at 150 points and works its way down...


Well, the way Swiss usually works, everyone is randomly seeded at the beginning, so you could have a lot of skill disparity. But as the tournament goes on, winners play winners and losers play losers, so by the final rounds, you're playing players with similar records and, presumably, similar skill level. This should, at leadt in principle, makes for closer, more interesting rounds later in the tournament.

Regarding escalation vs de-escalation, I don't think anybody wants to play a 90-minute 150 point match that is a blowout, and a 30-minute 60-point match that's close but short.
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Dennis Godballe
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For tournaments I still think that the 100 points has the best balance between the two sides and between time and fun.

For private games I'm not really playing at that low a level of points anymore, unless I'm testing a squad for a tournament. Wednesday we played a special mission with 275 vs. 300 points and it was a treat. Today we will play a 250 vs. 250 game and tomorrow I will be playing a 2x200 vs. 350 game...
 
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MILLINGTON
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I've played in several 150 point tournaments lately and 75 minutes has been enough time for 90% of the matches. The matches that seem to take the longest are the Tie Swarm vs. Tie Swarm simply because of the higher average number of ships compared to a Rebel squad and all of the evade dice. With Wave 3 out, 150 points works out really well. With the Escalation tournament format, 150 will probably become the standard. One of my local game store is having an Escalation tournament in October. Everyone is excited about it!
 
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Nick Sibicky

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I like 100 pt games stil because neither player can get everything that they want onto their squad; both have to make sacrifices and that leads to more replayability.
 
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Jimmy Neutron
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Although it seems 100 points is a sweet spot (for my games, anyway), that escalation tournament style looks really, really interesting. Thanks for the link!
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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We almost always play 100 pt games, though occasionally play a 150pt game. We have a restriction on the 150pt game though, no more models than you could squeeze in a 100pt game, the extra 50pts is for upgrades only. That way we don't have a 12 TIE Swarm...

We also like doing 4-man 100pt games (so 200pts on each side).

-shnar
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Robert M.
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I'm not opposed to tournaments at >100, and Escalation does look interesting. But I think the trade-offs and compromises inherent in the 100-point format are a good thing, since they require you to think carefully about what to bring and why.

Or, to put it another way, just because most tournament players now have enough ships to easily run (e.g.) a 200-point list doesn't mean the 100-point format is bad or outdated.
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Joe Flesch
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Vorpal Sword wrote:
I'm not opposed to tournaments at >100, and Escalation does look interesting. But I think the trade-offs and compromises inherent in the 100-point format are a good thing, since they require you to think carefully about what to bring and why.

Or, to put it another way, just because most tournament players now have enough ships to easily run (e.g.) a 200-point list doesn't mean the 100-point format is bad or outdated.


I second this in a huge way. Coming from a very deep Warhammer Fantasy background, just because I have 5000 points in Dwarfs doesn't mean I should play a game with that much. What I love about X-Wing is the dogfight quickness and tactical choices forced into that 100 point window. It forces you to make touch choices in what you field and doesn't allow you to have all the toys you could.
 
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Joseph Woodworth
Japan
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I agree that the 100 point tournament is not outdated, nor do I think it is bad. I personally chose 150 over 200 because I still feel quite constrained in the 150 point game .

It's interesting to see the results thus far, and the massive weight of the 100 point tournament. I probably should've made 2 more poll questions - I wonder what the maximum point size people can do is, and what size a game they are playing casually.

@ Shnar - i'm curious - what do you mean by limit the number of ships at 150 - does this mean no more than 8 imperial and 5 rebel ships? or - do you build 100 points worth of ships and then upgrade? Do you consider named pilots "upgrades?"
 
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Jeremy Steward
Canada
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i like 100 point builds. Although it seems like I need 101 to build what I want a LOT (and very rarely 102+) Im really close to using 101 for casual games. lol
 
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