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Subject: Legion Wargames rss

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Mike W
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moujamou wrote:
Do the games make it over to shops in the UK? That Maori wars map looks dead nice.
I would sign up for a news letter.


James -- I am pretty sure they can work something out -- I know Legion works with designers in the UK, like Andy Loakes. You might want to email Legion at contact@legionwargames.com to see where / when it will come to the UK. You should definitely preorder it.. devil
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Rex Stites
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I think a good newsletter helps. I like GMT's style. They give you an update on the progress made on certain titles towards actually getting published. They tell you what made the cut in the last month and what may have been added. They also give you updates on projected publishing schedule. In short actual news. I think if it were just a bunch of advertisements for various title then I wouldn't pay much attention to it.
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Kim Kanger
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I think it would have to be a combination of an advertisement for the title soon to be released, and general news about other games moving forward in the production queue.
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hedererp wrote:
Get the designers up and talking about their projects and give potential customers a bit of light at the end of the pre-order tunnel.


I couldn't agree more. I got into GMT games because of Rick Young and the great job he did selling people on Europe Engulfed, then supporting the game once it was released. There are other designers who have done the same and gotten me interested in their series (a recent shining example is Mark Mokszycki), while other designers have turned me off.
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Andy Loakes
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engdy wrote:
Is Legion Wargames a VASSAL-friendly (or cyberboard-friendly) company? That can be a make-it-or-break-it decision point for me, and I'm sure many others.

Encouraging VASSAL use and module creation I think can go a long way towards promotion of Legion games.


Legion have been a supporter of www.limeyyankgames.co.uk from the company's inception. Randy is currently using the LYG homepage to solicit CB, ZT and Vassal work.

Andy
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Andy Loakes
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moujamou wrote:
Do the games make it over to shops in the UK? That Maori wars map looks dead nice.
I would sign up for a news letter.


I think the games shop in Finchley (the name escapes me - as too, possibly, does the spelling of Finchley) may. Also, I'm acting as a drop shipper for legion so there's a cost effective shipping option available - check out the Legion site and or contact Randy for details. This drop ship is available for the whole of the EU; it sees Randy covering the import duty and the damned annoying 'handling' charge.
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Andy Loakes
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kanger wrote:
As designers have to do their part pitching their games, players could support Legion by spreading the word.


I strongly second that.
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roger miller
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I am currently testing Kim's excellent Dien Bien Phu game now on pre-order at Legion. The rules are very comprehensive and really give me the sense of what the siege was like. I will certainly post more about the game after I finish releasing my own game, Gazala:The Cauldron, and can get to playing DBP more. I look forward to beating Kim at his own game.
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Andy Loakes
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I think Legion's Toulon, 1793 looks great (the map is gorgeous - though not to the standard of Maori Wars which is just awesome). Check it out on the Legion site.
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Andy Loakes
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Disclosure: I'm the Toulon Designer blush whistle
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Tyler
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I've been making eyes with both Tonkin and Battle of Adobe Walls, and will probably end up buying one or both of them at some point. I'll certainly pick up Tanga 1914; thanks to this thread I can now add Slouch hats to my list, as well.

I'm not inclined to preorder, however. In most cases, the preorder price, even before shipping, won't beat what I'll ultimately pay from an OLGS. Factor in that most OLGS will promise free shipping if I simply buy a pile of games I want anyway, and financially it's a no-brainer. I understand this attitude probably isn't popular with folks who want to see a game hit its number, but there are only too many great games out there already published and ready to play that I don't often feel compelled to preorder, unless the topic, theme or system is right in my wheelhouse. Even then, with the uncertainty of production and near-certainty of delays, there is plenty to disincentivize preordering.

Case in point: I am an unabashed Lock 'n Load fanboy, play the system to death and will go out of my way to acquire any of its modules, whether in or out of print. But even I have to acknowledge their preorder system is an outright disaster. Not only do they charge upfront for orders, they also bake shipping costs into the preorder price. Not only does this make the target number artificially high (as it reflects not just production costs, but the cost to ship to preorders), it also eliminates the incentive to double up your order and save shipping while letting the game hit its target. And while they promise to refund preorders that don't hit their target by a certain date, they instead continually extend the deadline indefinitely (because with a big lump of cash on hand, why wouldn't you?). Add in their notorious production delays and I will simply never preorder a game from them that hasn't already hit its number and is on the way to the printer.
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Mike W
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andyloakes wrote:
I think Legion's Toulon, 1793 looks great (the map is gorgeous - though not to the standard of Maori Wars which is just awesome). Check it out on the Legion site.


I agree, the map looks great.

All threads are better with actual maps in them.
 


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roger miller
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Very smooth Andy.Toulon looks great and even more important in my view is that it is a fresh take on siege warfare. Really looking forward to seeing this one. pre-ordered this as soon as it hit website

Tyler I understand your pre-order concerns but Legion is a totally different system than LnL. They do not collect your money or even any credit card info until game is ready to ship. The discounts are also quite substantial for pre-orders and in my experience have always beaten OLGS prices.
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Andy Loakes
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rmiller1093 wrote:
Very smooth Andy.Toulon looks great and even more important in my view is that it is a fresh take on siege warfare. Really looking forward to seeing this one. pre-ordered this as soon as it hit website


Love ya Roger

You too Mike
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Andy Loakes
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Zoom in to the latest version of the 'playtest' map here: http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?233@@.1dd25c6f/3227!enclosu...
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Kim Kanger
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Tyler, I guess information is the important issue here. What would you think of the following setup:

1) Number of preorders showing how far up on the ladder the game has reached.

2) A quarterly newsletter where a short text by each game tells where it is in the design/development/production process.

3) An extra newsletter, sent a few weeks before shipment of a game, that offers a last chance to get the game for its preorder price. This newsletter will also tell which other game will advance into the first in line slot.
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andyloakes wrote:
I think the games shop in Finchley (the name escapes me - as too, possibly, does the spelling of Finchley) may.


1 You refer to Leisure Games?
http://www.leisuregames.com/

2 If you also act as a Legion agent it would be helpful to have details.

3 Because of the shipping and tax issues I, like many others, do not pre-order. Thus the foreign interest has to be guessed rather than relying on pre-order levels.

4 The topics look marginally rather than mainstream so I should have thought less likely to attract orders. Nothing there that catches my eye.

5 Never having seen a Legion product I cannot comment on quality and I imagine that applies to many. A newsletter sounds a good idea, I never sign up for them but no doubt many do; you have to keep up the marketing.

6 At some point Legion have to make a commercial decision on the risk of production.
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Andy Loakes
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hammurabi70 wrote:
andyloakes wrote:
I think the games shop in Finchley (the name escapes me - as too, possibly, does the spelling of Finchley) may.


1 You refer to Leisure Games?
http://www.leisuregames.com/

2 If you also act as a Legion agent it would be helpful to have details.


Leisure games is right - thanks.

As to being an agent there are not a lot of details for me to give - I simply act as a forwarder. But here's what Randy has to say on the Legion homepage:

All CPO games will be shipped in bulk to the UK where the VAT will be paid. Then the game is shipped to you and since the shipment originated inside the EU you should not be charged any additional handling fees. The total paid by you for this service will be approximately $25 for a single game.


This is just my way of saying thank you for continuing to Pre-Order games despite the ever higher cost of shipping.


Randy Lein - LWG


Note: That service is inclusive of the postage for a single game - at least that's my understanding.
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Tyler
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kanger wrote:
Tyler, I guess information is the important issue here. What would you think of the following setup:

1) Number of preorders showing how far up on the ladder the game has reached.

2) A quarterly newsletter where a short text by each game tells where it is in the design/development/production process.

3) An extra newsletter, sent a few weeks before shipment of a game, that offers a last chance to get the game for its preorder price. This newsletter will also tell which other game will advance into the first in line slot.


Communication is definitely critical. I'm more inclined to preorder from GMT (and occasionally do) in large part because their communications are first-rate. (They also offer those end-of-year specials for those who preorder.) Sample map art and counters, playtest AARs, a draft of the rules ... anything that gives customers a peek into development is, to my mind, a good thing.
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Tyler
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rmiller1093 wrote:

Tyler I understand your pre-order concerns but Legion is a totally different system than LnL. They do not collect your money or even any credit card info until game is ready to ship. The discounts are also quite substantial for pre-orders and in my experience have always beaten OLGS prices.


Thanks, Roger -- I really do need to look into Legion's preorder system specifically. Was just speaking more generally about my experience with preordering, and why I'm not often inclined to participate. From what I know about Legion's titles, they seem like an excellent publisher.
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Andy Daglish
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kanger wrote:
What?


Join GMT.
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Face Hugger
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I don't tend to preorder anymore unless I really trust the designer. Been burned too many times on disappointing games.

These Legion titles look interesting, but many are oddball topics that are unlikely to get a lot of replays, what I think of as "magazine game topics." Nothing wrong with that, but these seem pretty expensive. Do I really want to pay that much for a Corregidor game? How interesting can it be? $55 plus shipping is probably $67. That's a lot for what I consider a magazine game topic that I might play once, if I could somehow convince someone else to play it. Do I really want 500 counters' worth of Corregidor game, with 24 pages of rules? I'd probably get Corregidor satiation from a 100 counter game with 8 pages of rules - yes, a magazine game. Any situation this predetermined is probably more interesting to read about than to play, unless it's easy to learn and quick to play - and relatively cheap, since you are unlikely to play it more than once, after which you have absorbed anything about the situation that didn't jump out from reading about it.

Maybe the new economy has just priced me out of this kind of game, but it seems a lot of them are going to have limited appeal to most people. If the game is pricey, on a one sided obscure topic, and has a designer you don't know, why would you pre-order it, unless it is your pet topic or you have a ton of disposable income?

I don't mean to pick on Corregidor, it actually was the title I found most interesting from the list.
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Kyle Seely
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I had only passing familiarity with Legion Games prior to this thread. Now I'm signed up and have Fire on the Mountain: Battle of South Mountain September 14, 1862, Maori Wars: The New Zealand Land Wars, 1845-1872, The Russo-Japanese War, and The Waters of Oblivion: The British Invasions of Argentina 1806-1807 preordered.

Thanks for the info!
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Wendell
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I've played Ici, c'est la France! The Algerian War of Independence 1954 - 1962 and it's a good one.
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egg_salad wrote:
engdy wrote:
Is Legion Wargames a VASSAL-friendly (or cyberboard-friendly) company? That can be a make-it-or-break-it decision point for me, and I'm sure many others.

Encouraging VASSAL use and module creation I think can go a long way towards promotion of Legion games.


Yes, they are very VASSAL friendly. I asked (over on CSW) if there was a module for Battle of Adobe Walls, and was told there was not. I volunteered to make one, and I got all the graphics files from Randy Lein (Mr. Legion Wargames) needed to make it, as well as his appreciation when it was done.

I believe they also sponsor Limey Yank Games, which has an extensive VASSAL and Cyberboard module repository (and the site owner is also a designer for LWG).

Randy put out a request for users to create modules for Picket Duty: Kamikaze Attacks against U.S. Destroyers – Okinawa, 1945 and I believe he has volunteers lined up for both VASSAL and Cyberboard.


Good to know - thanks for the replies to my VASSAL comment. I have the Khyber Pass printing of B-29 Superfortress, and I couldn't find a VASSAL mod. I seem to recall reading a while ago that VASSAL modules were restricted for this game. Now that Legion has it, perhaps we'll see something.
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