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Subject: Legion Wargames rss

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Rex Stites
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Lawrence
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chuft wrote:
[q="rstites25"]

I don't think the wargame consumer is an average American schoolboy.
Even if he was, the average schoolboy is far more aware of Desert Storm, and Iraqi Freedom, than of the campaigns of Napoleon. That doesn't mean there will be a huge demand for games on Desert Storm, because it was a lopsided, one-time affair where one side didn't win any battles.



The point being that the average gamer was an American schoolboy at one point (with all due respect to the non-American wargamers on the board). Everyone knows those historical eras. Those were huge conflicts that have more histories written about them and appear more in pop culture than any other. Those eras have been romanticized beyond the war gaming world. They have a built in popularity --not to mention being much easier to research than practically any other.

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Eric Stubbs
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I think it's encouraging that we're on page 4 of this thread. Also, I've gone and pre-ordered Toulon now, and I agree that a newsletter would be a good idea.

I appreciate that Legion covers (and covers well!) lesser-known topics that still have a lot of richness and interest for wargaming. I've always had a taste for history a bit out of the mainstream, including finding the Successor Wars more interesting than Alexander's conquests, 18th century warfare more interesting than Napoleonics (though I'm getting into the age of Napoleon of late, due to board games), and so on.
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Andy Loakes
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Charles Vasey wrote:
I think frequent shilling can work if it has historical content rather than a lot of waffle on the game design process


I wonder.

You may be right but (again an assumption on my part) I'd have thought that for most games the history is known to the potential audience and that they would be at least, if not more, interested in how the designer had tackled the topic.

I can see how there might be additional interest in the history associated with obscure topics such as many of Legion's but I'd have thought that was still significant interest in the designer's approach.

I guess we're all different in the way we communicate, including tone, and what we're interested in.
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Andy Loakes
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Antigonos wrote:
I think it's encouraging that we're on page 4 of this thread. Also, I've gone and pre-ordered Toulon now, and I agree that a newsletter would be a good idea.


You've made my day Eric. If my daughter hadn't been home this weekend and it hadn't been my mother-in-laws 90th, you'd have made my weekend.
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Steve Pole

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"If Chad Jensen offers a new game at GMT on a WW2 topic, then preorders will hit 1000 in no time, even if the topic would be a bit obscure." (Apologies, everyone I don't know how to create the blue boxes around quotations.)

Kim, I agree entirely; and, I might well be one the 1,000. But, how long do you think it would take for even someone of Chad's ability/standing to get 1,000 pre-orders if he were to announce a game based upon the First Anglo-Burmese War (1824-26) or the Panipat Battle/Campaign (1761) which was, arguably, the largest of the c18?




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Kim Kanger
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You know, maybe not 1000, but quite a few in a very short time. I think many would be curious of what he would do with a topic like that, and even more would be confident that he would make a great game and that GMT would make it great looking.

Then of course, some periods just don't hit. For me, Napoleonics and American civil war (sorry) have never been of interest. I don't know why, but they never have.
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Kim Kanger
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Quote:
I think frequent shilling can work if it has historical content rather than a lot of waffle on the game design process - Lee Brimmicombe-Wood is the chiefest of our men on this skill set.


This is indeed a delicate matter. It's true that one has to find a middle way of how much to shill, and especially where. I try to keep it within the Legion family folders at Consim. But at the same time, one seem to only reach the already devoted that way. Your point about more historical background to stir interest is good though.
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Charles Vasey
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andyloakes wrote:
Charles Vasey wrote:
I think frequent shilling can work if it has historical content rather than a lot of waffle on the game design process


I wonder.

You may be right but (again an assumption on my part) I'd have thought that for most games the history is known to the potential audience and that they would be at least, if not more, interested in how the designer had tackled the topic.

I can see how there might be additional interest in the history associated with obscure topics such as many of Legion's but I'd have thought that was still significant interest in the designer's approach.

I guess we're all different in the way we communicate, including tone, and what we're interested in.


Of course, but we can surely conclude Lee's method has been more effective than usual. It helps of course that he has a "name" so that we are interested in his views rather than those of Joe Blow.
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Steve Pole

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"You know, maybe not 1000, but quite a few in a very short time. I think many would be curious of what he would do with a topic like that, and even more would be confident that he would make a great game and that GMT would make it great looking."

I would REALLY LOVE that to happen. It would be great for the hobby if six or seven top designers, with the support of the largest companies, each published a game centring upon a battle/campaign from a hitherto neglected era or region. Not only might this encourage existing gamers to purchase similarly "obscure" games from smaller companies like Legion; but, it might also bring more people into the hobby from across the world, thereby increasing the potential market.
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Kim Kanger
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Charles, what would you like to see, to make Legion succeed?
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Martyn Smith
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Bourne
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My PhD thesis - available at all good booksellers... ;0)
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I came on BGG tonight just to have a random 'poke around' and stumbled across this LWG stuff...

I was totally seduced by the Maori Wars map and intrigued by the era and conflict represented.

I also personally think that it'd be rather cool to be in on the ground floor with such a fascinating-looking game.

I have, therefore, put in a pre-order and will be watching further developments closely.

One very small caveat (you had said you wanted comments...), it would be helpful to know a bit more about rules and gameplay. I can imagine most folk would want more before pre-ordering.

Don't let this detract from my VERY positive vibes towards your company. I wish you ALL the best in the future and I really hope that Maori Wars will be released sooner rather than later...

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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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I admit I'd simply never heard of your company before but I try not to pre-order. Frankly I tend to purposely be late to the proverbial party because I want games with the bugs out. If a game is shown to be good enough though, I'll make an exception.
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Kim Kanger
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Moshe, nice to see someone not from the usual countries. I see that you are from Jerusalem. Magic city, been there many times.

You could order any of the existing games at Legion. Games that have been proven and have stod to the test among players.
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Nigel Twine
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Rubenpup wrote:
...announce a game based upon the First Anglo-Burmese War (1824-26) or the Panipat Battle/Campaign (1761) which was, arguably, the largest of the c18?


I would immediately order the first and would definitely consider the second.
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Charles Vasey
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kanger wrote:
Charles, what would you like to see, to make Legion succeed?


The breakthrough game that both demonstrated the strengths of Legion (finish, quality and care) and made people say "Yes, this I must have". But until then finish, quality and care are a damn good start.
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Kim Kanger
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Quote:
The breakthrough game that both demonstrated the strengths of Legion (finish, quality and care) and made people say "Yes, this I must have".


I'm working on it
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roger miller
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Charles- What is your view on advertising on CSW, BGG etc. as a way for small companies to get exposure as opposed to say the designer trying to do all the promotion on CSW and BGG which is common for many companies, certainly not just Legion.

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Charles Vasey
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rmiller1093 wrote:
Charles- What is your view on advertising on CSW, BGG etc. as a way for small companies to get exposure as opposed to say the designer trying to do all the promotion on CSW and BGG which is common for many companies, certainly not just Legion.



I don't have any useful data, I'm afraid. With international costs we over here end up buying in the UK some weeks after it all happened in America.

I do believe that a designer with vast command of his topic (Ed Wimble is another good example) can mislead us into buying even though we swore the topic did not interest us (I'll get you Brimmicombe-Wood). So if you can do this I think it is better than advertising, but certainly harder work.
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olivier R
France
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There needs to be the equivalent of those big monthly MMP and GMT p500 geeklists threads for smaller companies whose games often go unnoticed when they are published.
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roger miller
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One more question for Charles. Do you think cross company promotions or sales might help the smaller companies? Right now we all have a handful of products and fans that are split up all over the place as compared to say GMT which has a huge selection and presence. I am trying one now with my company Revolution Games and ATO magazine to see if this generates any more visibility.
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Mike W
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pepe le moko wrote:
There needs to be the equivalent of those big monthly MMP and GMT p500 geeklists threads for smaller companies whose games often go unnoticed when they are published.


There is a geeklist for Legion. It went for a while monthly, but that seemed to be too often given the rate of change of the CPO list. It terms of making it big -- we just need to get more folks coming to the list and thumbing it. The summer list did not do too bad (99 thumbs).

I have recently picked it up, and I am planning to do it quarterly.

Here is the subscription thread:
Legion Wargames (LWG) Monthly Pre-order Geeklist Announcement Thread

Here is the last list:
Legion Wargames Preorder List -- Summer 2013

I am going to be putting out a new one soon, probably next weekend.
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Charles Vasey
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rmiller1093 wrote:
One more question for Charles. Do you think cross company promotions or sales might help the smaller companies? Right now we all have a handful of products and fans that are split up all over the place as compared to say GMT which has a huge selection and presence. I am trying one now with my company Revolution Games and ATO magazine to see if this generates any more visibility.


Yes, when I coach selling I always advocate cross-selling. There is an implied thumbs-up from the other party.
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Randy Lein
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Legionnaries (as I refer to my customer base, current and future),

Kim Kanger started this thread as a means of voicing his thoughts about the reasons for the low number of Pre-Orders and to solicit feedback on possible strategies. I have to thank him for that because the response has been overwhelming indeed and some very good points have been raised.

I have not been in a position to add my responses to the questions and such but rest assured that I have read each and every post with intent and I will respond more fully later tonight.

Randy Lein
Legion Wargames
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T. Dauphin
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Belleville
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Well, beyond the reaching out, I'd say your home page is somewhat underwhelming. You might want to put this

kanger wrote:

one of the best graphics and components in the business


to work on your website. I would expect to see a number of flashy icons leading me directly to some of your current or more exciting projects. And show me what to expect. I agree with this

DrFlanagan wrote:
For me, the game descriptions on the website need more about how each game plays, not just the historical situations.


Include this historical info at the bottom, off to the side, elsewhere, but tell me about the game first.



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Steven Goodknecht
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I just pre-ordered Fire on the Mountain: Battle of South Mountain September 14, 1862 and it was a painless process. I actually tried to do this a few nights ago but I was unable to create an account for some reason. But no problem tonight.

This looks like an interesting game on an interesting battle that hasn't been done too many times. It also has a nice looking Rick Barber map.



Now all it needs is another 102 pre-orders. C'mon guys, I'm getting old and I'd really like to play this before I die! How's that for a sales pitch? Or perhaps I'll tell you about the nightmare battlefield tour I had of South Mountain back in 1991. Yikes!
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