Recommend
251 
 Thumb up
 Hide
3696 Posts
[1]  Prev «  3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7  Next »  [148] | 

Wargames» Forums » Wargaming Press Releases

Subject: Legion Wargames rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Wolfgang Kunz
Germany
Netphen
flag msg tools
badge
I'm German. That's what we do...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Why I don't pre-order at Legion Wargames:

Same reason why I don't pre-order anymore at GMT / MMP aso.

The shipping - costs have raised so much and the hassle with customs over here are complicating the whole thing even more.

Yes, I know: No pre-orders means no games et al. But I'm not a non-profit-organization with the sole meaning of pushing wargame - companies forward on their way to success. Money became sparse in these economical times.

Sounds harsh, doesn't it?

Well, it depends.

First, Legion has to "stand it's ground" contesting with other companies who want my money. My son is 7.5 and so games with plastic-components or LCGs or Super-Heroes are tempting for him. More than simple wargames.

Do I like Legion Games? Yes, very much. I have Slouch Hats, Tonkin and Ici and have my eye for some time on Saipan, Russo Japanese War, Tatchanka, Dien Bien Phu. I'm not very fond of the "obscure" battles since I'm mostly playing ACW, WW1, WW2. But that's just my taste.

IMHO the quality of Legion Games is top and I really like the easy-punch-counters.

Do I want Legion to succeed? Oh YES. One way might be to be visible here at the Geek and not only at CSW. Continue with the Legion Wargames List and - I found this very helpful - spice this lists with comments by designers of the games. Sometimes interest is spiced when you can read about the game, about mechanics, about the idea behind. Also see to it that you have a Vassal mod available when the game comes out (there are so many people wanting to help companies with modules and turned down - I dunno why. Recently Vassal becomes my no. 1 source for playing wargames - and I only play those mods where I or my opponent owns the game at least).

Will I pre-order in the future? Certainly not, sorry. But I will follow you closely and be sure that my FLGS has a list of upcoming games I want him to get for me as soon as they are available - and this list certainly contains Legion Wargames.
8 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randy Lein
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Legionnaries,

I will now do my best to respond to the questions/concerns/feedback in this thread, in no particular order.

1. Many people commented that a quarterly News Letter would be a good idea so I have dusted off a template I created a few years ago and hopefully I will have it ready in the next week or so.

2. Legion Wargames fully supports the creation of Vassal, Cyberboard, and Zun Tzu PBEM components for all games. But as has been said I rely on volunteers to create them so not all games have all 3 options available.

3. Mention was made of the need for a "breakthrough game" to put LWG on the map. B-29 Superfortress (originally released by Khyber Pass Games), did a lot in that respect with the first print run of 1,400 selling out and now the 2nd Edition (another 600 copies) heading in the same direction. The designer behind B-29 (Steve Dixon - along with Shawn Rife), also designed Picket Duty which has done quite well in CPOs reaching the 250 mark in approximately 2 years and closing in on 300 as we speak. Probably due in a good part to the following Steve has from B-29. But the breakthrough game is coming... and that being Bombs Away! This game, also designed by Steve Dixon and Shawn Rife, has it's roots in the still often played B-17 Queen of the Skies. This version will also include the B-24 and a very much expanded target list. It will also feature aircraft cards instead of counters so that the same stunning artwork found in Picket Duty can be even more prominently displayed. The hope for that game's release was 2014 but Shawn has had to step away from the design for a period of time. And just in case you are wondering, this game is not yet available for Pre-Order. I am holding off on adding anything new until I can clear some of the current backlog.

4. The current CPO system used by LWG sets the mark at 250 but it's not a fast and hard rule as both Corregidor and Tatchanka are moving forward with around 200.

I know there are a good number of additional points I should address so let's just call this a start.

Randy Lein - Legion Wargames
24 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Aceto
United States
Fairfax
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm a bit late ot this discussion, but to me one of the issues is the lack of regularly published games. Maybe the pre-ordering system is the issue here. Going by what's listed on BGG under your name as publisher, I see one game in 2013, three in 2012 (one of which is an expansion of an exisitng game), and then one each in 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007 and 2005. It's hard to create buzz where there's nothing to buzz about.

You might want to consider issuing what you feel to be winner games outside of the pre-ordering system in order to keep your products in front of consumers.

I say that as someone who owns seven of your published games, and has three more on pre-order. But quite frankly, I rarely visit your folder on Conswimworld since there rarely seems anything new to report.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Morley
United Kingdom
Hastings
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wolfgang has a very good point when he mentioned the shipping costs.
I did buy Slouch Hats directly from Legion, and between Randy and Andy Loakes, they managed to get the shipping to the UK to an acceptable price, but it was still alot.

I have four games on pr-order with Legion, but it could be years before they are published and by then the shipping will no doubt be even more.

Maybe Legion could strike a deal with a games distributor to sell games in Europe at a reasonable shipping cost as I am sure there is a great market for wargames in Europe
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Morley
United Kingdom
Hastings
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe they need to bite the bullet and get more games out onto the market regardless of preorder. It has gone a little stagnant, as I have 4 on preorder and I could well have retired by the time I get them. surprise
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kim Kanger
Sweden
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is a way for us Europeans. The French online shop: www.agorajeux.com offers not only very good prices, but also to ship the goods to most countries in Europe for free! But you have to order stuff for at least 200 euro to get this free shipping (4-5 games). They also give you loyalty points that you can cash in as price reduction next time you order something from them.

This means decently priced games (Tonkin: 52 euro), no shipping charge and no customs! And quicker delivery. Buying Legion games from a retailer is also an act of support!
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Morley
United Kingdom
Hastings
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would sign up to a newsletter. It would be nice to get updates, especially with the amount of games I have on preorder with Legion
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kim Kanger
Sweden
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How many of you visit the social consimworld?

http://social.consimworld.com/
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wolfgang Kunz
Germany
Netphen
flag msg tools
badge
I'm German. That's what we do...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kanger wrote:
How many of you visit the social consimworld?

http://social.consimworld.com/


Not me. I go to CSW mostly for rules or something but BGG is more "structured" to me.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Morley
United Kingdom
Hastings
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kanger wrote:
How many of you visit the social consimworld?

http://social.consimworld.com/


Kim - I am a regular on the CSWsocial, but to be honest, you are the only designer of Legion wargames who I have seen regularly post updates and news on new products.

Legion really need to do a newsletter, and as games get near to publishing, flood BGG & CSW Social with pictures, designers notes and any other useful bits that may attract the attention of possible buyers.

Legion have to turn slutty, and sell themselves everywhere! devil
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kim Kanger
Sweden
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Slutty, but with style kiss
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Morley
United Kingdom
Hastings
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Absolutely...lol.

Steve Dixon (Picket Duty) also puts items on CSWsocial, but more as comments rather than actual posts. Posts will get seen more, and that is what you did with The Road to Cheren. (How well did it do in sales?)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kim Kanger
Sweden
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fairly well, but GMT-ish, of course.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Morley
United Kingdom
Hastings
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I see agorajeux are selling it for 15 euro now....it has me tempted....lol...damn you kim for giving me that link!!!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Morley
United Kingdom
Hastings
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe it is just me (and it probably is), but I do feel even GMT have been slow at putting out games this year.
Maybe there is a mixture of market saturation & lack of cash from hard pressed buyers
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martyn Smith
England
Bourne
Lincolnshire
flag msg tools
badge
My PhD thesis - available at all good booksellers... ;0)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
nemesisuk wrote:
Maybe it is just me (and it probably is), but I do feel even GMT have been slow at putting out games this year.
Maybe there is a mixture of market saturation & lack of cash from hard pressed buyers


I've just been charged £21.00 import charges on Sekigahara, making it the LAST game I EVER order from GMT. I am not blaming them, I just can't afford it anymore.

I will be buying from the UK or going without...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Morley
United Kingdom
Hastings
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thechangingman wrote:
nemesisuk wrote:
Maybe it is just me (and it probably is), but I do feel even GMT have been slow at putting out games this year.
Maybe there is a mixture of market saturation & lack of cash from hard pressed buyers


I've just been charged £21.00 import charges on Sekigahara, making it the LAST game I EVER order from GMT. I am not blaming them, I just can't afford it anymore.

I will be buying from the UK or going without...


Import duties are the other BIG downside to ordering direct. It has not happened to me yet, but I am sure it will do, and when it does, I will stop buying from America shake
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kim Kanger
Sweden
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Then buy through Andy Loakes (see above) or through Agorajeux.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Bartholomew

Lancaster
Ohio
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The Legion games I have (Adobe Walls and Tonkin) are great, but I agree with some of the other posters that the information about Legion games on BGG is a little lacking. That said, there are around 10 games right now on the pre-order list that I'd probably buy tomorrow if they were available.

Not sure the best way to solve the problem, but I think in this case that the games will sell once they're available but at the rate of 1-2 a year it discourages pre-orders.

On a side note, is there a reason Legion games seem a little more difficult to get than those of other manufacturers? For example, I don't see them at places like Coolstuff...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Loakes
United Kingdom
Hinckley
Leicestershire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kanger wrote:
Then buy through Andy Loakes (see above).


Thanks Kim.

Actually, its easier than that - just order through LWGs and Randy will route your order through me - couldn't be simpler.

Andy

PS Just to reiterate, to avoid the need to scroll back, you'll pay $25 shipping per game to the EU (Randy may do a special for multiple orders - you'll need to check with him) and we'll take care of customs and handling fee - and its all legitimate (the revenue get their due). Strictly speaking this applies top pre-orders but I'm sure Randy will see you right with a regular order if you check with him.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Morley
United Kingdom
Hastings
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
andyloakes wrote:
kanger wrote:
Then buy through Andy Loakes (see above).


Thanks Kim.

Actually, its easier than that - just order through LWGs and Randy will route your order through me - couldn't be simpler.

Andy

PS Just to reiterate, to avoid the need to scroll back, you'll pay $25 shipping per game to the EU (Randy may do a special for multiple orders - you'll need to check with him) and we'll take care of customs and handling fee - and its all legitimate (the revenue get their due). Strictly speaking this applies top pre-orders but I'm sure Randy will see you right with a regular order if you check with him.

This is how I got Slouch Hats, and it worked really well, which is why I have pre-ordered so many other games from Legion laugh

Great company, great people, and great supply routes, just a shame we cannot get more games out of them more quickly
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barry Kendall
United States
Lebanon
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm glad to see this thread; I've been rooting for Legion for quite a while but it's a little like rooting for a glacier to win a sprint.

I don't mean that unkindly; as a flgs owner I've known for years likes to say of miniatures gaming, "This is a niche market in a niche hobby."

With small companies such as Legion, theirs is a niche market share, won, for the most part, by offering niche subjects.

I think the technology which has enabled DTP, and its extension the small-house professional-grade game publishing phenomenon, have done more to reinvigorate wargaming than anything since SPI and GDW appeared offering alternatives to the once-or-twice-a-year publication schedule of AH.

Who could have hoped to see games offered on some of the topics a firm such as Legion presents thirty years ago? Not to mention reprints, or new editions, of good but little-known designs such as "B-29" or "Little Big Horn?"

Which brings me to my two cents' worth . . .

I believe Legion has not "broken the plane of awareness" in the hobby largely because the publishing schedule has been so slow. Exposure depends on multiple factors, but I believe two of the most effective are still (a) actual publication and retail availability and (b) word-of-mouth gamer chatter, both face-to-face and on BGG.

Some of my old gaming friends ask why I don't participate on CSW. The main reason is the time required, related to CSW's formatting. It can take page after page after page of searching on a given game's entry to find something that actually pertains to game play, with all the amiable chatter or tangential topics that arise on a title's thread. On BGG, it's generally much easier to find reviews, errata, variants, play sessions and so on, all of which magnify interest in a title.

So buzz on BGG--even playtester buzz--helps elevate the profile of a design "on the ways," which should often help move it toward actual launch.

Actual publication also generates buzz. Here, I think BGG could use some refinement, as the "new games" feature lists games that have not even moved through playtest yet, much less publication. I'd prefer two categories: "Released" and "In the works," possibly even refining these into sub-categories revealing more about their progress ("Release imminent, 12/13" for instance, or "In the works, playtesting underway" or "In the works, all components submitted to printer."

Be this as it may, actual publication gets attention for both publishers and designers. I understand the necessary caution involved in establishing adequate support for a title under consideration--I was around to see the demise of virtually all of the failed wargame publishers of the past 45 years.

But I believe Legion might benefit from committing to a minimum of one or two titles per year to be published by a certain date no matter what the support level might be by that date (MMP might also sit up and take notice here).

Even if such a release results in lower revenue for the company than the same design "held" for another eighteen months until the desired support level is attained, I believe this will be more than offset by the combination of post-release sales, and increased preorders for the publisher's other products (due to increased exposure for the firm and its products, consumer contact with published graphics and finished rules, and positive player buzz).

The "newsletter" idea is not a bad one, but it will target consumers who have already encountered Legion in some form. This would be a good second step, but I believe that the first step is to broaden awareness among the wargaming public (current and potential) and the points I've offered, along with others in this valuable thread, might help.

Legion exhibits a lot of creativity and a willingness to broaden the wargaming menu in some exciting fresh directions, and I really hope the firm can build momentum soon.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
roger miller
United States
California
flag msg tools
publisher
Barry it is frequently mentioned that companies like Legion, MMP, etc. would be better off just publishing some games rather than waiting for years to gather support. One problem is the company may not have the money to take that risk, without the pre-orders where does the capital come from?

The second issue is does this really work. My company, Revolution Games, does not rely on pre-orders to publish. We design a game and publish it, often in less than a year. We did two games last year and are doing three this year. One, The Road to Cheren, by the same designer who started this thread. The games have seemed to be well received by those people who have played them but our sales are about half of Legions. In other words waiting for years to get the pre-orders has actually been out performing our strategy of just go ahead and publish the game.

So right now my instinct is that Mr. Vassey is correct. Small companies need a breakout game like POG,which last I checked has sold 18,000 where the best Legion game is perhaps at 1800 and my best game all time is around 850.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randy Lein
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Legionnaires,

Kim mentioned one retailer in France but there are others, to name a few, Hexasim, Leisure Games, Udo Grebe, Jocade, Sentry Box, etc., plus distributors in Spain, Italy, Germany, Japan, Canada. The games are out there and I have come across them in all sorts of places.

As for shipping, I have done what I can to minimize the cost to the EU using Andy Loakes of Limey Yank Games acting as a middle man. Just to clarify, the $25 flat rate to the EU, which includes the VAT payment and should preclude additional handling fees, is for the first game. Adding one or two more games won't cost you $25 each but rather some additional fee as yet to be determined. Needless to say it will be a fair price, I don't make any money on shipping charges.

Randy Lein - Legion Wargames
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randy Lein
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
RE: Speeding up Releases

I started LWG in 2009 and have thus far published the following games:

2009 - Ici c'est la France!
2010 - Saipan & Tinian
2011 -
2012 - Slouch Hats & Eggshells - Tonkin - Hell Over Korea
2013 - Adobe Walls - B-29 Superfortress 2nd Ed. - Picket Duty (and tentatively Tanga 1914 and Ici, 2nd Edition)

I'm not sure what happened in 2011 but the pace is picking up. To that end this year I took several steps to help break the log jam. I reduced the hours of my "real" job to three days a week and I began using outside artists to help as in the beginning I did most of it myself. For example right now the maps for Tatchanka and Corregidor are in the works, Decisive Victory has map #1 of three finished, and of course Maori Wars speaks for itself. Of course this does cost extra money but I'm spending it in hopes of moving things forward towards greater rewards down the road.

And just to reinterate in case someone is not aware, Legion Wargames consists of myslef and that's it. I handle all aspects of running a company, building and maintaining the website, producing and shipping games, and customer service. I suppose one way to speed things up would be to take on a partner or two but the fact remains that producing such high qualtiy games in such low quantities doesn't really leave much in the way of profits when you start splitting it up among two or three people. But of course I'm not really in this to make a fortune, but making a living at it would be rather nice.

It is my intention to produce each and every game on the CPO list, if at all possible. And let's face it in some cases I might be the only full production publisher that's going to cover these so this may be your only chance to get a non-DTP game covering the battle of Toulon, or the Invasion of Agentina.

Thanks to everyone who has commented thus far, I'm feeling a lot less alone than I did two days ago.

Randy Lein - Legion Wargames

22 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
[1]  Prev «  3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7  Next »  [148] | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.