Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Descent: The Road to Legend» Forums » General

Subject: How can Heroes Win, and when to shuffle the treasure deck? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Sam Welbaum
United States
Garden Grove
California
flag msg tools
Two questions:

1) Do you shuffle the treasure deck every week?

2) We've played 3 RtL campaigns. The heroes have lost all three. The first one because we had no clue what was happening. The second because I was OL and am amazing...and also the heroes played poorly. We just lost the third campaign in early gold after failing to chase Alric away from Tamalir. I'm trying to explain to the other heroes that that happened because we didn't search through the treasure deck enough because we gave up too much conquest pushing through dungeons we shouldn't have because we had Tobin and figured we could just walk through everything. So, my heroes aren't listening to me and are 100% sure RtL is set up so that the heroes can't win the game. Any advice to share on how to point out that error to my fellow heroes?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark McG
Australia
Penshurst
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Any advice to share on how to point out that error to my fellow heroes?


I think a comparison of the Conquest Points between when you suggest they should quit and when they actually do would demonstrate the point.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Burk
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance!
badge
Rakes, my arch enemy.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If they aren't listening to you, move on to a new game. They just don't get it and while that's a huge shame to pass on RtL, might as well save some stress in the end.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jo Bartok
Germany
Zwingenberg
Hessen
flag msg tools
Interaction leads to Immersion.
badge
Immersion leads to Fun.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So this is the way a game can also go.
For us it was the complete opposite. The hero party completely got the meta game from the first session on. No single chance cause they went on to have much armor, Astarra, lots of dodges/body blocking, often fleeing in the right moment, not giving much cp and going through the treasure decks as often as possible, carefully planning the global map movement to be able to throw back any siege early in copper and silver.

maybe the two weakest of your hero party should try and play OL togather?
maybe you did not include tomb of - it is easy for the party to win - ice?
maybe they just can't play.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Retired Hurt

Brussels
Unspecified
msg tools
This is a difficult game.

The heroes have to be cautious for about half the game, and the settings, which resemble RPGs, make beginners relentless. They can't win that way.
Apart from the mechanics of blitzing, they have to master the art of sparing dungeon places, the planning of weekly moves, to get the best skills (which aren't necessarily the most glamorous ones) and to figure that most of their assets must be concentrated on fighting lieutenants standing at Tamalir's door.

There are so many counterintuitive things to do that I'm not surprised if the heroes lose thrice in a row ; that happened in our group too, but not many times from then on.

Just one question : do you use feats ?

2 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Welbaum
United States
Garden Grove
California
flag msg tools
Merrimac wrote:
This is a difficult game.

The heroes have to be cautious for about half the game, and the settings, which resemble RPGs, make beginners relentless. They can't win that way.
Apart from the mechanics of blitzing, they have to master the art of sparing dungeon places, the planning of weekly moves, to get the best skills (which aren't necessarily the most glamorous ones) and to figure that most of their assets must be concentrated on fighting lieutenants standing at Tamalir's door.

There are so many counterintuitive things to do that I'm not surprised if the heroes lose thrice in a row ; that happened in our group too, but not many times from then on.

Just one question : do you use feats ?



We use all the expansions, but all agreed that Feats were an awful addition to the game and have banned them.
1 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Welbaum
United States
Garden Grove
California
flag msg tools
And any thoughts on the treasure deck?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Burk
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance!
badge
Rakes, my arch enemy.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sleepwalker42 wrote:
Merrimac wrote:
This is a difficult game.

The heroes have to be cautious for about half the game, and the settings, which resemble RPGs, make beginners relentless. They can't win that way.
Apart from the mechanics of blitzing, they have to master the art of sparing dungeon places, the planning of weekly moves, to get the best skills (which aren't necessarily the most glamorous ones) and to figure that most of their assets must be concentrated on fighting lieutenants standing at Tamalir's door.

There are so many counterintuitive things to do that I'm not surprised if the heroes lose thrice in a row ; that happened in our group too, but not many times from then on.

Just one question : do you use feats ?



We use all the expansions, but all agreed that Feats were an awful addition to the game and have banned them.


Well there's your problem.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jo Bartok
Germany
Zwingenberg
Hessen
flag msg tools
Interaction leads to Immersion.
badge
Immersion leads to Fun.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Deadsider wrote:
Sleepwalker42 wrote:
Merrimac wrote:
This is a difficult game.

The heroes have to be cautious for about half the game, and the settings, which resemble RPGs, make beginners relentless. They can't win that way.
Apart from the mechanics of blitzing, they have to master the art of sparing dungeon places, the planning of weekly moves, to get the best skills (which aren't necessarily the most glamorous ones) and to figure that most of their assets must be concentrated on fighting lieutenants standing at Tamalir's door.

There are so many counterintuitive things to do that I'm not surprised if the heroes lose thrice in a row ; that happened in our group too, but not many times from then on.

Just one question : do you use feats ?



We use all the expansions, but all agreed that Feats were an awful addition to the game and have banned them.


Well there's your problem.


No it is not. The problem then is Crushing Blow. Remove that as well.

p.s.: cause the most terrible thing in this game is 4 players playing 4 heroes EACH (e.g. all interrupting each other) my recommendation is: use feats but let the heroes not be able to talk about feats and/or share information. Furthermore each session discard all feats from their hand and shuffle them back into the Feats draw pile. At the start of the session, draw the "saved" amounts of feats per hero again. This way: no cheating, no talking, no saving of feats until day x but still "some" saving. Especially the bad feats are actually being played so that the discard pile gets bigger and filled up with shitty feats. Furthermore: longer sessions are better if you reshuffle the feats. I strongly recommend not to use feats and have the hero party share information about their feats.

Feats alone are a horrible mechanic to the engine (Descent itself). BGGs regulars seem to agree that they are required for balance in RTL though. You get flamed heavily if you don't agree on this point, yet I don't and side with you. Horrible, horrible game mechanic. That being said: If you include everything but feats, don't forget to remove Crushing Blow as well. Furthermore you can limit the feats a hero can hold to 2 or 3. If you can trust your mates you can skip the shuffleing. Bad thing is: a good party actually has to prepare upfront the session starting (when the OL isn't there) to plan ahead and play well ... most likely also speaking about their Feats - at least our party did this with huge success. And yes. This game is hard. One last note: It is far worse if you play Late-Copper to Mid-Silver Campains where the OL cannot catch up as there is no mechanic how the hero party can shortcut to victory.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Corbon Loughnan
Indonesia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ionas wrote:
Deadsider wrote:
Sleepwalker42 wrote:
Merrimac wrote:
This is a difficult game.

The heroes have to be cautious for about half the game, and the settings, which resemble RPGs, make beginners relentless. They can't win that way.
Apart from the mechanics of blitzing, they have to master the art of sparing dungeon places, the planning of weekly moves, to get the best skills (which aren't necessarily the most glamorous ones) and to figure that most of their assets must be concentrated on fighting lieutenants standing at Tamalir's door.

There are so many counterintuitive things to do that I'm not surprised if the heroes lose thrice in a row ; that happened in our group too, but not many times from then on.

Just one question : do you use feats ?



We use all the expansions, but all agreed that Feats were an awful addition to the game and have banned them.


Well there's your problem.


No it is not. The problem then is Crushing Blow. Remove that as well.


And yet, crushing blow can be dealt with.

The simple fact is that a competent OL should be able to hit the heroes mostly in very early gold with 3 or more Lt backed by gold monsters and 5-7 points of treachery. Its very very difficult to beat a Lt with that much firepower available. Feats give you a chance, or more accurately, a chance of chasing off the first Lt or two without so much damage that the 2nd or third wipe the floor with the heroes.

The most valuable feats are often the least noticed...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gus Silver
Greece
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
If you remove feats though i think that encounters will be impossible at some point to deal. Too many death cards even with wind pact to deal. The trap cards are just deadly... trap treachery and Total party kill easy. Feats are really powerful but still we kinda spread the wins and losses on our group.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.