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Subject: Supply and flooding rss

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Wendell
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Per sequence of play, flooding begins at the very beginning of the turn (when appropriate). Floods can have significant impacts on tracing supply lines since river routes adjacent to flooded hexes can't be used for supply, and roads & railroads in flooded hexes are trails (so not usable for supply).

BUT - per sequence of play, you only determine supply AFTER the operation segment. Which, if I'm reading this right, means the supply effects of flooding, by a strict reading of the rules, happen on the next turn, when the flooding might have already ended.

Is this the intent? Is the supply phase in the wrong place in the sequence of play?
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Leonard To
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Flood lasts for the duration of the whole turn (except those caused by destruction of the Yellow River Dike). If there is flood at the beginning of the turn it is still ongoing during post-operation segment.
 
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Wendell
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Leonard wrote:
Flood lasts for the duration of the whole turn (except those caused by destruction of the Yellow River Dike). If there is flood at the beginning of the turn it is still ongoing during post-operation segment.


Understood. But flooding (the event) is at the beginning of the turn. Supply determination phase is AFTER the operational segment. Reading this in sequence of play order, the SUPPLY EFFECTS of flooding don't happen until AFTER units have moved, fought, etc in the operational segment.

Is that the intent? Because that's strange if so...
 
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Kev.
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..LOL. Oh boy.
here we go.
Wendell is chief playtester it seems. did anyone play test here in the USA?
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Kev.
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Leonard wrote:
We should move the supply phase to the end of the pre-operation segment.

Did this just not ever come up in play test?
OR are the current crop of players deeper into the game than was tested?
Curious about what else will be found that needs changing.
 
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Leonard To
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Already did. Edmond.
 
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Adam Starkweather
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I'll be working with Leonard to get some corrected rules and charts out shortly.

Sorry about some of the issues that came up but Leonard has been terrific about taking care of questions.



 
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Philipp Klarmann
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Wouldn't it have been easier to say that in the event of flooding, the next turn has the flood effects instead of changing the whole sequence of play? Thus you would have only needed to change the flood timing a bit.
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Kev.
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Philipp Klarmann wrote:
Wouldn't it have been easier to say that in the event of flooding, the next turn has the flood effects instead of changing the whole sequence of play? Thus you would have only needed to change the flood timing a bit.

Genius. Because Lord knows how this will impact things.

I was really excited about this. I'm going to however, wait for the rules to settle down before I break out all those shiny clipped counters.
 
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Wendell
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Philipp Klarmann wrote:
Wouldn't it have been easier to say that in the event of flooding, the next turn has the flood effects instead of changing the whole sequence of play? Thus you would have only needed to change the flood timing a bit.


"If it says "FLOOD" for turn 11, apply the effects to turn 12."

That seems counter-intuitive.

Edit: Also I don't think moving supply to BEFORE the ops phase will make much of a difference (except for fixing flood). Either way, supply is judged in the various steps and phases between the last operation on turn X and the first operation on turn X+1.
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Edmond
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Philipp Klarmann wrote:
Wouldn't it have been easier to say that in the event of flooding, the next turn has the flood effects instead of changing the whole sequence of play? Thus you would have only needed to change the flood timing a bit.

wifwendell wrote:
If it says "FLOOD" for turn 11, apply the effects to turn 12.
That seems counter-intuitive.


Will seem strange to have a flood occuring in Spring and effects on Summer...

-----------------
EDIT: Proposed errata removed
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Paul Crispi
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This sequence of play has been going back and forth it seems for years. I started a game a few weeks ago and checked all the errata and confirmed what was not clear with the designer.

The weather occurs first during the turn and then you check supply at the end so you have until then to get your units in supply. I don't see the issue.

We won't be starting over or anything but these rules were kind of a mess to start and confusing at many points but these were all clarified over the course of the last few years from what I read. I suggest leaving the sequence of play alone as we have not found any problems with it at all.
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Edmond
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I can only quote initial question/observation:

wifwendell wrote:
Per sequence of play, flooding begins at the very beginning of the turn (when appropriate). Floods can have significant impacts on tracing supply lines since river routes adjacent to flooded hexes can't be used for supply, and roads & railroads in flooded hexes are trails (so not usable for supply).

BUT - per sequence of play, you only determine supply AFTER the operation segment. Which, if I'm reading this right, means the supply effects of flooding, by a strict reading of the rules, happen on the next turn, when the flooding might have already ended.

Is this the intent? Is the supply phase in the wrong place in the sequence of play?

------------------------------

Changing sequence of play has not much consequences except that out of supply units suffer immediately. This means that when one starts an operation he has to anticipate next turn supply check. A note could warn players.
 
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Leonard To
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Thanks Paul for the clarification. Sorry for not having been active here.
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Mike Willner
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You’re overlooking the impact of Flood on Partial Command units ... their movement is impacted by curtailed supply line in the Ops Phase right after the Flood. And, units will suffer he effects of Flood all next turn ... which often enough is a Flood turn on the General Events table.

So, leave he Supply Phase where it is and deal with the one turn where Floods only impact Partial Command. Think of it as the Flood waters are rising that turn.
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Leonard To
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Sorry about the confusion. The sequence of play should NOT be changed. I deleted my previous comments which I admit, was made haphazardly.

When there is FLOOD in a summer turn, units should have a chance to get out of locations affected by the flood. If they cannot, they lose supply at the post operation segment.
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Paul Borchers
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Thanks for reviewing these threads, Leonard. Your involvement in these discussions will not only help clarify the rules, but help us understand your reasoning.
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Edmond
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I changed my errata file and edited my message according to Leonard's clarification.
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