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Subject: Flicking Fairways: A Dexterity Golf Game - idea phase rss

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Kai Bettzieche
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Howdy folks,



with the rise of dexterity games (especially in the PNP area) I had an idea about a dexterity golf game:

The core rule of golf is: bring your ball from the tee to the hole.

This could translate into game mechanics as follows:

What you need:
The golf course deck
A 10mm disc per player

The golf course deck is a deck consisting of 18 cards. Why 18? Just so I can submit it to http://www.goodlittlegames.co.uk/

Those 18 cards cover:
- The Tee
- The Hole
- Course without obstacles (8)
- Bunkers (4)
- Water (4)

Between the Tee card and the Hole card 3, 4 or 5 cards are placed for a par 3, 4 or 5 course respectively.

First, you place the Tee card. Then you draw a number of cards according to the required par at random from the remaining course cards.
Place each card drawn next to the one placed last, so they build the course.
Place the hole card at the end.
The majority of course cards have a straight path leading through.
Some of them do come with a corner, too, so the course is no longer a straight line.

The player whose ball is furthest behind may act. In case of a tie decide via rock paper scissors or something ..

As long as your disc ends up on the grass, play for you proceeds as usual.
If your disc ends up in a sand bunker, your next shot must not bring it outside the card it is currently in, otherwise just put it back.
If your disc ends up on the rough, you will have to move it back to the border of the card furthest away from the hole on your next shot.
If your disc ends up in a water obstacle, you lose one shot.

At the end, count, how many shots you are below or above par for each course.
After 9 or 18 courses, count those numbers up to your final score.
Alternatively, you might want to state your handicap before play starts. In that case, the difference to your handicap is your final score - the lower, the better.



Sooo ... this has just been a braindump ...

Thoughts?
Ideas?

Things troubling me on first glance: on a card with a width of 65mm width - how are you supposed to "overtake" another player with a 10mm disc?
How do you prevent cards from moving (and thus "destroying" the course)?

No ideas for those questions, though, right now ..



As always: Thanks for reading and thank you for your feedback!

Kind regards,
Kai
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David Male
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
Are you not just adding some cards and extra rules to Tiddlewinks (long distance version), which is a simple dexterity game that plays in the same way as golf.
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Kai Bettzieche
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
Hmm .. I've not been aware, a game like this does exist ..

If it does, please point me towards it ..

Regarding Golf Tiddlywinks:
a) This game is over 20 years old, so could profit from a major overhaul
b) Yes, apparently there are similarities; There are differences, though, as well - or at least I guess there are, since I do not know the rules ..

(Oh, btw: Isn't Monopoly just some houses, cards, money and extra rules added to snakes and ladders?)
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David Male
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
I did not know there was a published version of Golf Tiddlywinks until you pointed it out. We have often played regular tiddlywinks around the house. With a firm carpet, mats and furniture for rough and hazards, you can make it as easy or as difficult as you like. It is a 100% dexterity game and a lot of fun. I thought that you were aiming at a dexterity game which prompted me to reply. However if you are adding cards etc then the game becomes a hybrid. In my view (which may not be typical) the simpler/faster that a dexterity game is, the better it is.
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Jake Staines
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
schattentanz wrote:

b) Yes, apparently there are similarities; There are differences, though, as well - or at least I guess there are, since I do not know the rules ..


It's a pretty rubbish simple game. Players take it in turns to jump tiddlywinks across the board one jump at a time, being required to visit each hole in turn. The first player to hit the 16th (!?) hole wins. You are constantly required to remember your (and therefore also everybody else's, if you play with people with poor memory or an inclination toward cheating) current target hole; if you hit another player's tiddlywink during your turn then your target is set back by three, and if you land on/in one of the poorly-defined bunker or water areas then you have to place your tiddlywink back on the start and progress to your current target from there instead (in at least one case this is actually not a penalty in the least thanks to the layout of the board). To add to the fun, the heavy board in the Past Times edition doesn't lay remotely flat. Thanks to the bumping rules, it's practically impossible to finish a game with the full complement of four players unless you're all minor tiddlywinks deities or you collude to get the damn game over with so you can play something more fun like stabbing-yourself-in-the-face.

In short, I don't think you have much to worry about.
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Kai Bettzieche
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
Ooookkk... This explains a lot, though I still have no idea, what a tiddlywinks actually is..
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Jake Staines
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
schattentanz wrote:
Ooookkk... This explains a lot, though I still have no idea, what a tiddlywinks actually is..


A tiddlywink is a thin disk of plastic, usually about 1mm thick and 10-15mm wide. The goal in pretty much all tiddlywinks games is to get your tiddlywinks to a certain board area, into a cup, through hoops or whatever by 'jumping' them.

You jump them by holding another, similar disk between thumb and forefinger (often a larger-diameter one is provided for just this purpose), and pressing down on the rear edge of the disk you want to jump. The 'jumping' disk slips out from under the pressure, because they all have slightly rounded edges, and as it moves forward the disk you're pressing down with moves down sharply, causing the 'jumping' disk to flip up into the air a little.

At least, that's the theory. A lot of the time they just move forwards without jumping at all. I do wonder whether it has anything to do with the manufacturing quality or whether it's all technique.


EDIT: In fact, here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBx-JazBX7E ;-)
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David Male
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
It is mostly technique, given a reasonable set of tiddlywinks and a fairly firm, even surface. It is very satisfying to hit the cup from 30cm out. A long shot can go up to 1 metre and anyone who is within 10cm of the cup (on the green?) should really be able to hole out in 1 or 2 tiddles. At this level a par-3 hole is 50-100cm and a par 4 hole up to 2 metres.
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Adam H
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
You could place a clear plastic board over the course to slide the pieces on. That would probably hold the cards in place. Also, you could take the disc off the board and mark the spot it was on with a dry erase marker. That way you wouldn't have to worry about hitting someone else's disc. I know that changes the simplicity of the components but just some ideas...
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Kai Bettzieche
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
Excellent idea!

I'm going for a print and play game here, though..
So it would be up to the crafter to provide that plastic board..

I'll mention it in the rules
 
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Kai Bettzieche
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
Oh, btw:

Today I worked out some prototype cards:





As well as a rulebook preview:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4yversymx69br9e/rules_lowink_previ... - the low ink version

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a36am7rfmgtobr5/rules_premium_prev... - same text, but more ink intensive

Next step: Gimp time for the cards
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Jessey
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
As someone who has experimented with modular-board dexterity games (Nimbles the Spell Thief) you may encounter some problems that I did. Namely, card edges.

It's a great idea in principle, but even with sturdier chipbboard that hasn't warped, it is not uncommon when flicking your disc for it to catch the edge of the next card, which sends your disc off in a direction you didn't want and moves the whole board. One thing that helped avoid this most of the time was using discs with rounded edges.

Otherwise sounds neat, although a 3 card long straight flick is easy and the intermediary cards will be irrelevant after a couple of minutes of practice. Would be a nice, very compact, quick-playing dex game though. I'm keeping an eye
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Kai Bettzieche
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
I implemented a setup rule: have the cards overlap - that way the discs shouldn't move the cards around .. or do they? (lack of experience, here ..)
Plus: a player moving any other part of the game but his own disc has to start right from the beginning, but keeps his count of flicks for a hole ..

You say, a 3 card flick is too easy - is hitting a 15mm spot with a 10mm disc over that distance really easy? (lack of experience here, too ..)
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Jessey
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
Quote:

You say, a 3 card flick is too easy - is hitting a 15mm spot with a 10mm disc over that distance really easy? (lack of experience here, too ..)


I had a playtester of another of my dexterity games getting his 15mm disc within 1/2 inch of another 15mm disc from 4.5 feet across a table. Now, he's a big fan of dexterity games and is very very good with flicking things.

But, hitting the target may be difficult, but reaching that last card will not be too difficult. Which would make the intermediate cards irrelevant (which is what I was worried about). This can be solved with more 'corners'; forcing players to take a slow careful route and requiring more precision to avoid the pitfalls (instead of just flicking over them).

Overlapping cards may help, but I still recommend rounded edges on your discs!

EDIT: I should quickly add, test before you take my recommendations on board. I haven't tried *your* game, I'm just expressing opinions based on my experience with my dexterity games.
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Kai Bettzieche
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
Very good, Jessey - haven't thought of this .. But sounds plausible ..

More curves is it, then
 
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Philip Kitching
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
Re the card edges problem

I used to own a copy of Golfwinks

That comes with couple of fairway boards Short for par 3, long for par 4 and both for par 5. Off the board counts as in the rough so getting over the edge is an intentional extra difficulty.

The boards were about 3mm thick and you could build a variety of holes from the bits supplied.
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Philip Kitching
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
schattentanz wrote:
Very good, Jessey - haven't thought of this .. But sounds plausible ..

More curves is it, then


You will need a rule to prevent short cuts or a physical barrier
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Jake Staines
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Re: Dexterity Golf game - idea phase
Postmark wrote:

You will need a rule to prevent short cuts or a physical barrier


I would suggest: allow people to take shortcuts if they like, but if their 'ball' ends a shot not-entirely-on-a-card then they place it back on the card they started from and still count the shot.

(Or IIRC the golf thing is to place it at the edge of the fairway on the card they were closest to and take a penalty, I guess. I'm not a golfer, so this is half-remembered from videogames. ;-)
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Kai Bettzieche
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Hmm ..

lacking any physical barriers (except for the opponent's disc), I have included a rule forcing you to start from the beginning but keeping your score, if you push cards or the opponent's disc around .. this should force you to keep the disc on the cards - shouldn't it?
(If you do not use rounded edges on your discs, that is ..)

(I have next to no chance to test stuff like this right now .. )

Anyway: The first batch of cards has been produced:

















To increase the difficulty, I think I'll just make half the cards "corners". The "landing rule" for ending up in the rough will raise your score that way ..

(Note to self: include a rule for ending up on the green: If you end up there, just finish the job, so the opponent gets his chance, too.
Blocking the cup is just lame ..)



Thanks for reading/spending thoughts,
Kai
 
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