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Order of the Echolight
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Review on Deep Ones Version 1

The statistics are not bad for a first draft but we feel that a lot of edits are necessary and here are our main points for the faction as well as individual character thoughts

Main points

● Abilities are too similar to Order until it more or less becomes another Order. It should have some characteristics of Order but be more related to the water.

● There are too few unique abilities. Each faction should have some unique abilities that aren’t the same as the other factions. This would make it more fun and make the faction more unique and different from others.

● Statistics are generally overpowered, too expensive for their cost.

● Not all the characters should have water affinity, we were thinking of just predator having that and more.

● Some of the statistics and abilities are rather weird and we will be reviewing that later for each character.

LEVIATHAN

Problems
Leviathan is really too much like Abomination. There are only three things that are different, which is one less movement, water affinity, and no frenzy. We feel that Water affinity is not suitable as at elite, in water, he will have 9 defense which is too high. High defense characters shouldn’t have such over powered defensive abilities. This is one reason why huge characters don’t really get character and difficult terrain bonuses. Furthermore, if part of the leviathan is in water, does he get extra defense when someone attacks a part that isn’t in water? Thus, we feel that water affinity shouldn’t be present on huge characters.

New proposed character
As we feel that the leviathan is basically almost the same as the abomination, we feel that we should replace the leviathan with a character with more connections with the water, more power and control over it.

Water Smash
Our idea was that he has abilities like water smash (or water control? bad names.): Attack every enemy in LOS and in WR on a water tile.

Terraform 1 and 2
He could also have terraform at recruit to change two tile in WR to water terrain permanently. Then at veteran and elite, he could have terraform 2 to change three tiles to water. He should be a huge character.

STATS
HEA: 3,6,9
MOV: 4,4,4
WR: 5,6,6
CC: 2,2,2
RC: 2,3,4
DEF: 5,6,7
Abilities: R: Huge, water smash, terraform 1
V/E: Huge, water smash, terraform 2


MASTER OF THE DEEP

Hydro blast
For this character, we feel that the ability hydro blast is quite okay, though it needs some changes for the template. We feel that fire column template may be overpowered as it will cover a lot of tiles. We were thinking of a template which is 3-3-5 tiles, like the flamethrower: 4,4,6. This would cover fewer tiles and limit the range which the blast can affect. Just saying that it should have a success in order to work and there shouldn’t be any damage for enemies.

Tentacle Constriction
We feel that he shouldn’t have tentacle constriction as honestly, most medics shouldn’t be in the front line and really attacking. Its really weird to have a medic going to CC and we feel that that shouldn’t be the case for the Deep Ones. Also, a constricting someone next to you waste time since that person can still cc you and well, someone who is attacking a medic in cc would want to kill it and not want to run away. So we feel that the tentacle constriction is kind of useless.

Water Affinity
Water affinity is okay, but maybe we could change it to a more useful ability as defense ability on a medic isn’t that good and will increase the cost. We can still add it in if the cost of the Master is not too expensive.

Proposed Abilities -- Hydro Form
We feel that the master maybe could have an ability called Hydro form (horrible name): combine permanent water tiles (no hydro blast, water tiles will disappear to form clear terrain) to form a thrall like serpents. This could be like nethermancer’s nethergate with a difference showing the similarity between the deep ones and order without using identical abilities.

Hydro form: Merge two water tiles to form a recruit, 4 to form a veteran and 6 to form an elite. Maximum 3 serpentines and can only form the serpentines up to level of master. So veteran master can only form recruit and veteran serpentines.

Statistics.
Furthermore, we feel that his stats are overpowered. 3,3,4 for rc is practically a sniper so that would be too powerful. He merely needs a success to heal allies, so no need to high rc. Its expensive too and not realistic on a medic. The CC is likewise, very high.

Proposed statistics
HEA: 2,4,6
MOV: 4,5,5
WR: 5,6,6
CC: 2,2,3
RC: 2,3,3
DEF: 4,5,6
Abilities: R: Hydro blast
V,E: Hydro blast, Hydro form

The Master’s weapon range will be further than the area attack range so that he can use hydro form at a place further away.


OCTOPUS GUY

Tentacle Grab
Compared to the other characters, the octopus guy, (name is cool but a little too complicated) is okay but a bit like indestructible. To make the octopus guy different and more unique, we suggest this for the ability.

R: Tentacle Grab 1: Death pull but when the enemy is pulled in, he loses 1 CC until he breaks free of grip (every start of round roll dice, if 6-10 or 7-10 etc, he breaks free??, no need to spend action) he is also constricted like death vine and cannot move away.

V,E: Tentacle Grab 2: Same as tentacle Grab 1 just that when enemy is constricted, roll dice each round. On a roll of 8-10 or 9-10 (whichever), enemy loses one health.

This would really be very powerful but it would make it more unique and different compared to indestructible. However, if Jeff is okay with this, the RC and CC would have to be lowered slightly. WR is low enough so no need to change much.

Water Affinity
As said earlier, unless we solve the problems, water affinity wouldn’t be suitable on a huge character, and anyway, with tentacle grab being quite good, a defense ability wouldn’t be that good.

Proposed Statistics
HEA: 3,6,9
MOV: 4,5,5
WR: 3,3,3
CC: 3,3,4
RC: 2,3,3
DEF: 5,6,7
Abilities: R: Huge, Tentacle Grab 1
V, E: Huge, Tentacle Grab 2


TIDEHUNTER

This character has the most issues and we feel that a lot of changes are necessary. Each character should only have a max of 3 abilities so the 4 abilities here would be expensive and against the rules for the character.

Water Affinity
He is meant to be a weak character, so there shouldn’t be water affinity as it will just give him extra defense which defeats the purpose of him being weak. So we think that water affinity should be taken away.

Ambush
Now, this is really an over powered ability considering his stats. Scout has only 2,2,3 rc and his costs is like more than tidehunter. making him have 2,3,4 rc will make him super over powered even though he only has 3 to 4 weapon range. Furthermore, as he is considered a weaker character, his rc and cc should not exceed a nether-tech. As there are 4 abilities and this would make tidehunter too expensive, we feel that ambush should be taken out.

Net → change name to ensnare
This ability is fine. However, it is quite useless without damage being done as the enemy can just recover by the next round without the lost of health.(Not saying that it is useless, but it is not that useful) Thus, the ability should deal either one damage max or he takes damage as usual. We also feel that maybe net should have a potential stunning effect. Should the tidehunter be able to net the victim, roll a die. On a roll of 8-10 or 9-10, the character is stunned instead.

We were thinking of combining the abilities ambush and net to form ensnare. Basically, the tide hunter can move and use net, use net or use net and move. he cannot do a normal ambush.

Pack Hunter
Just clarifying, does the stats increase for just cc or is it for rc also. I think this ability is okay though maybe just rc would be better to make him different from carnage. Cannot use this ability in conjunction with Ensnare

Suggested Stats
HEA: 2,4,5
MOV: 4,5,5
WR: 3,4,5
CC: 2,2,2
RC: 2,3,3
DEF: 4,4,5
Abilities: R: Ensnare,
V,E: Ensnare, Pack hunter

Reasons: 4,4,5 defense to make him weak but not 3 defense at recruit because that’s too much. 2,4,5 health to make him weak.


PREDATOR

Bloodthirst
This is okay, but in order to make Deep Ones more unique, we feel that the ability should be changed to Bloodscent. This is so as sharks are attracted to blood, they do more damage when enemy is injured as the enemy will be “bleeding”

Bloodscent (passive)- When next to injured characters (w/o full health), this character gains +1 cc. Cannot use in conjunction with Savagery. This ability cannot be used on arms and autonoma

Charge
In order to make it more unique, we decided to change charge to Savagery.

New ability – Savagery
Its the same as charge just that when you charge, roll a dice.
if it is 1-3(-1 CC during attack), if it is 4-7(normal charge) if it is (8-10)+1 CC during attack

Water Affinity
We felt that water affinity wouldn’t be too useful so we decided to change water affinity to water boost.

Suggested ability - Water Boost
In replacement of water affinity, he can have this ability at recruit.

Water Boost[/b]- This character can spend one movement to move 2 water tile squares. This character cannot spend one movement to move one water tile and one clear tile.

Suggested Stats
HEA: 2,4,6
MOV: 5,5,5
WR: 0
CC: 3,3 or 4,4
RC: 0
DEF: 5,5,6
Abilities: R: Savagery, water boost
V,E: Savagery, water boost, bloodscent

We would like predator to have 4cc at veteran. However, if after calculating the cost at veteran, if it is too expensive, then it should be changed to just 3 cc.

SERPENTINE

This character will be a thrall version of the deep ones. He can only be formed by the Master when he uses hydro form. Can’t choose this character at the start of the round. Here are the proposed abilities for this character.

Ability: Serpentine (Thrall): Can’t be chosen in the start of the round.

Ability: Water enhancement: +1 CC when in water.

Ability: Surprise Attack: When enemy wants to attack this character in CC, roll a die. On a roll of 8-10, you can cc the person before he attacks with one less cc. Can’t use in conjunction with water enhancement. Doesn’t take a turn.

Suggested Stats
HEA: 2,4,5
MOV: 3,4,4
WR:0
CC: 2,2,3
RC:0
DEF: 4,4,5
Abilities: R: Serpentine, Water Enhancement
V,E: Serpentine, Water Enhancement, Surprise Attack
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Nate K
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You could call the tentatively-named Water Smash ability "Geyser."
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Jeff Baker
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Fantastic work guys! As I said, everything I put in their initial stats/abilities was just filler, and I'm happy with you modifying and adapting the Deep Ones to be a competitive Faction.

When I get a moment I'll update their stats/abilities on the main Deep Ones thread. And I'll write down some ideas of their visuals.

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David Thompson
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At first glance this looks really awesome guys. Very thorough as usual! Thanks for the effort. I know you guys are super busy with exams right now.
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Jeff Baker
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I have updated the Deep Ones thread under the Variants category. I have included my ideas for visual appearances, renamed some of the new abilities, but the numbers and things are all the work of the Singapore team.

Let me know what ya'll think and what I should modify or change.
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Jeff Baker
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I am thinking about changing the Master of the Deep and the Cecaelia, basically swapping them physically.

So the Master of the Deep will be Huge, shoot Geysers through water terrain, and can turn terrain into water. While the Cecaelia will be the one to spray out water like a flamethrower that heals Deep Ones and can mold water terrain together to create Water Devils.

This just makes things flow better visually. I can see the Master of the Deep as this giant Cthulhu monster now, a Godzilla of tentacles. While the Cecaelia is this half-octopus half-woman creating little water elementals and healing all the Deep Ones.

What do you think of the names of the Deep Ones? Cecaelia is the mythological name of a half-octopus half-human. Master of the Deep, Nautilus Cavalier, Tidehunter, Predator, and Water Devils. Do these sound fitting of the Deep Ones?
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David Thompson
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Quote:
I am thinking about changing the Master of the Deep and the Cecaelia, basically swapping them physically.

So the Master of the Deep will be Huge, shoot Geysers through water terrain, and can turn terrain into water. While the Cecaelia will be the one to spray out water like a flamethrower that heals Deep Ones and can mold water terrain together to create Water Devils.

This just makes things flow better visually. I can see the Master of the Deep as this giant Cthulhu monster now, a Godzilla of tentacles. While the Cecaelia is this half-octopus half-woman creating little water elementals and healing all the Deep Ones.

What do you think of the names of the Deep Ones? Cecaelia is the mythological name of a half-octopus half-human. Master of the Deep, Nautilus Cavalier, Tidehunter, Predator, and Water Devils. Do these sound fitting of the Deep Ones?


I think the appearances all sound great. I love your "monster" characters. It seems a perfect fit for your art style. So I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

I like the character names, except maybe Tidehunter and Water Devils. The only thing that seems a little off is the inconsistency in the naming conventions. Mythological creatures, descriptive names, etc...just isn't consistent across the board. It's not a huge deal, but it does seem a little strange. My favorite names are Cecaelia and Nautilus Cavalier. For the Master of the Deep, maybe we could call it "Charybdis" (do a Google image search).

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Jeff Baker
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Skirmish_Tactics wrote:

I think the appearances all sound great. I love your "monster" characters. It seems a perfect fit for your art style. So I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

I like the character names, except maybe Tidehunter and Water Devils. The only thing that seems a little off is the inconsistency in the naming conventions. Mythological creatures, descriptive names, etc...just isn't consistent across the board. It's not a huge deal, but it does seem a little strange. My favorite names are Cecaelia and Nautilus Cavalier. For the Master of the Deep, maybe we could call it "Charybdis" (do a Google image search).


Here are some name ideas:

Tidehunter - Kappa, Kuo-tua, Locathah, Sahuagin, Troglodyte, Morkoth
Water Devil - Daimonas, Asura, Shaitan, Cythraul
Predator - Leviathan, Karcharias, Cetus
Master of the Deep - Charybdis, Scylla, Kraken, Ktulu
Cecaelia - leave as is
Nautilus Cavalier - leave as is

Let me know if ya'll have some more to share.
 
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A great job as usual.

Some suggestions:
Water Affinity 1
Unit can raise a water wall from water tiles in LOS. The wall stands while unit is alive. The water wall works like impassible terrain and block LOS to non Deep Ones units. Water wall give +1 defense to units totally inside water wall (yes huge will need 4 water walls)

Water Affinity 2
Same as 1, but water is so dense that units inside can only be attacked in CC.

Tentacle Constriction
How about make it a multi enemy attack and totally constrict units that fail. That would be a very interesting abilities. You move your unit to the middle of the enemy and do a cc attack, each hit, you choose to constrict one unit. That unit will remain constrict until the next tentacle constriction time.

Water Boost
I would prefer, when moving, the first water tile will have no cost.
So if a a deep one move one ground, one water, one ground and another water, it will cost only 3.


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Just re write time line, corrected minor mistakes and put the new faction in the story.
Now they have a why and a when.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1038418/time-line
 
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