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Star Trek: Attack Wing – I.R.W. Praetus Expansion Pack» Forums » General

Subject: So does anyone else think... rss

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Lee Long
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Cloaked mines are going to give Romulans some real oomph in the board control department?
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Brandon Holmes
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I wonder if this will include just the one cloaked mine card? If it includes 2 copies I will probably buy this expansion. Otherwise I think this may be the first expansion I will skip and use that money to buy a second D7, Kraxon, or maybe even to justify buying a second core set with the bonus of adding another Romulon ship that way.

The mines are cool, Valdore is nice, and the plating is ok, but it just doesn't seem all that interesting as a ship when we already have the cheap science vessel. I also have no sentimental attachment to this ship as I have never seen it before so there is that. Of course I don't know any of the Dominion ships but those at least seem fun to play. If this was the "bomber" or had something else going for it (even a cool mission would help) I'd be much more excited.
 
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Lester Gash
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I think it's going to be a powerful ability - especially breaking up those pesky Klingon ships that fly cloaked in close formation.

Hope it comes with another minefield token though (I can't see one on the sprue, but there's a lot hidden).

I'm also dying to know what that 'for use with Valdore' token is for.
 
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Not sure on the board control yet.......but it looks like it might be good for that.



bholmes4 wrote:
I wonder if this will include just the one cloaked mine card? If it includes 2 copies I will probably buy this expansion. Otherwise I think this may be the first expansion I will skip and use that money to buy a second D7, Kraxon, or maybe even to justify buying a second core set with the bonus of adding another Romulon ship that way.


It appears to be one.

And based on the Gor Portus component pic (that showed doubles of included cards)



There is no reason to think the Praetus would have a second Cloaked Mine Card (as it's component pic only shows one)
 
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Penguin Bonaparte
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Yeah, the mines could be good, and that and the captain are the only reason to get this ship. It's just going to be one-shotted by anything. If it could at least just cloak maybe you could use it as a stealthy cheap thing, but eh, might as well just throw the mines on the Apnex so you get shields. And I doubt they'll be kind enough to give us more than one. It would be nice to see how big the mine token is though.
 
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D Conklin
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Good for themed 22nd century/TOS battles....
 
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Michael Kelmelis
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The ship is kinda strange - it has two tech slots, so it can be a great initial ship to get out and lay down mines to funnel the enemy where you want them. Once the two mines are placed, though, the ship is pretty useless. Not sure it's worth the 24 points to place the two mine tokens though.

Yeah, the only real values in this expansion are the mines and the Captain. It's frustrating seeing all the other ships get about twice as many options in their packs as the Romulans do in this one. Hopefully somewhere down the road the Romulans will get a few more options.
 
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Scott Kelly
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I looked, on paper, about putting together a Praetus/BOP swarm.

The way I figure it is that it's a max 7 ships (Praetus and 6 generic BOP). Donatra needs to be on one and Terrell on another to pump the attack and defense. That would leave 8 SP left....which could be Toreth, Mirok, and Tomalak on 3 of the remaining ships, with 2 generic captains on the last 2. That would give you an initial possible 20 attack die and 20 agility/defense die, although you can probably assume that 1-2 out of the 7 will get knocked off quickly.

The other option I see would be IF you had the new Martok from the Ch'Tang Promo. You have the 1 Praetus and the 6 BOP. Then for the captains:
Martok (Ch'Tang) (6+1)
Donatra (4)
Terrell (1 + 1)
...leaving 1 SP to spare
This would give you 26 possible attack die and 20 agility/defense die. But again, you can reasonably expect for the Martok and Donatra ships to get targeted ASAP, which would quickly reduce those attack die.

I have not tested this to see how it would hold up.

The other option for the Praetus is as a cheap 3rd ship in a build to fill out where you might have an Apnex or Gr'oth/D7 for utility.
 
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Duane Bruun
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The plating really seems to be overlooked in this expansion. Maybe it's just me but that tech upgrade is money.

Granted, it could be due to the fact that I've had *one* crit squeak thru several times that seriously disrupted my plans; one was even a Warp Core Breach that detonated the next turn before I could even do anything about it. shake
 
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Lee Long
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It's 20 points with 2 mines. And it can cloak.

Or you can go 1 valdore and 2 d'deridex with 1 mine each for 100pts with reasonable upgrades.

Grab yourself 2 random tokens, lay them out just over 2 range apart and look how much space they cover with the 1 space detonation range.

It's huge. Game changing.
 
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Will Sanchez
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drscottkelly wrote:
I looked, on paper, about putting together a Praetus/BOP swarm.

The way I figure it is that it's a max 7 ships (Praetus and 6 generic BOP). Donatra needs to be on one and Terrell on another to pump the attack and defense. That would leave 8 SP left....which could be Toreth, Mirok, and Tomalak on 3 of the remaining ships, with 2 generic captains on the last 2. That would give you an initial possible 20 attack die and 20 agility/defense die, although you can probably assume that 1-2 out of the 7 will get knocked off quickly.

The other option I see would be IF you had the new Martok from the Ch'Tang Promo. You have the 1 Praetus and the 6 BOP. Then for the captains:
Martok (Ch'Tang) (6+1)
Donatra (4)
Terrell (1 + 1)
...leaving 1 SP to spare
This would give you 26 possible attack die and 20 agility/defense die. But again, you can reasonably expect for the Martok and Donatra ships to get targeted ASAP, which would quickly reduce those attack die.

I have not tested this to see how it would hold up.

The other option for the Praetus is as a cheap 3rd ship in a build to fill out where you might have an Apnex or Gr'oth/D7 for utility.


The generic praetus still costs 14 points. youd only be able to fit 6 with that setup.
 
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Keith McCallig
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Its funny - the cards that come with this ship are awesome while the ship itself is probably my least favourite in the game. Its almost like this pack is a D'Deridex expansion with a free ship than anything else

The poor Valdore doesn't have a Tech slot so it can't use any of the new goodies unfortuantely, which means there will be a real choice between the two now.

Polarised Hull Plaiting:
Amazing good for any Cloaking ship. The high number of defense die a Cloaking ship rolls (especially a Romulan) means that a large number of hits that get through to the hull will actually be Crits. Being able to ignore one every time your ship takes a hit will save you an amazing amount of grief. The number of Romulans I've seem limping around the board with one or two damage taken but also Console Fires, incapacitated captains, and the dreaded warp core breach isn't even funny. Add in the new Attack Plan Omega card from the Defiant Expansion and you'll really want to avoid those early bothersome crits. For 2 points it seems like a no brainer to take this.

Cloaking Mines:
The reason it isn't so clear cut to take the Polarised Hull Plaiting. These things are Awesome. Some nice advanatages:

1) Unlike Federation Antimatter mines they can be thrown out in any direction, not just out the back arc. Makes using them a lot easier.

2) They don't use up an action. They are dropped during the planning stage so relative initiative of Captains doesn't come into it. You just drop them and then move and shoot as if nothing happened.

3) They are cheaper than Federation Antimatter mines despite the fact that they affect a much bigger footprint of the board

4) For static defenses like outposts and space stations they could be a great upgrade. Around here at least the tactic in the 'Destroy the Space Station' scenario seems to be charge the station firing everything you've got and you should be able to destory it before it and its supporting ships can do signiciant damage - now you can drop a minefield between you and the enemy in turn one and all of a suddenly they are too busy madly avoiding mines to concentrate fire.

5) No defense dice mean that nothing in its right mind will cloak when going anywhere near them. Certainly the usual opening move of Cloak while moving up, next turn move forward and fire will be much riskier if the enemy has a chance to drop a minefield between you first.

6) Unlike Federation mines, these mines only affect 'enemy' vessels. This means they don't disorder your ships movements in the the least while giving the enemy big no go areas. You can dodge into the area knowing any enemy following will have to risk damage in order to follow. It also means that you can do the usual move forward turn one and cloak opening gambit, then drop your mines out at the start of turn 2 between you and the enemy just before they have to move. They now have to either head towards the mines or scatter on their all important second turn while you move up as if nothing has happened and light them up (with all your regular actions still available)

7) while you can't drop mines near enemy ships there is nothing stopping you from dropping them near objectives. Mine the planet and watch the enemy sweat bullets while trying to get in to beam down...

I have an excel spreadsheet I've put together for Squadron building and a quick look seems to suggest you can put together 5 Romulan Birds of Prey, each with cloaked mines for 85 points leaving 15 points for enhancements in a normal sized list. 5 'Range 2+' diameter mine fields will make huge no go areas on the board and the maneuver dial on a Bird of Prey is similar to the Defiants meaning they can stay in around the mines and force the enemy to come to them. I don't know if I would want to play this every game but it could be a fun scenario to try out sometime...

Just my random 2 cents on the subject,
Keith Mc
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Lee Long
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I've done a few mcok-ups and if you drop 2 in front of advancing ships, just over 2 space apart, it's virtually impossible for them to prevent themselves from hitting them.
 
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Brandon Holmes
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Old Longy wrote:
I've done a few mcok-ups and if you drop 2 in front of advancing ships, just over 2 space apart, it's virtually impossible for them to prevent themselves from hitting them.


Which is why I think it's a real shame this only includes one mine card (apparently). This is the first expansion I am actually annoyed with, especially as there would be room to include 2 mines on the ship itself. I am tempted for the first time to proxy the card but then it probably only comes with one mine token as well.

If I knew the same card and token was included in a future expansion I would be much happier. Heck if this came with 2 mines and 2 tokens I would probably buy 2 or 3 of this expansion as having 4-6 of these suckers out there could really change the game! Having a single mine is neat but it doesn't influence the way a game would play out much.
 
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D Conklin
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Here's hoping this ship gets to my FLGS prior to the OP month 2 event... laying those mines on the "jousting lane" will be deadly.
 
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Andrew Parks
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In the interest of full disclosure, I will have you know that the Praetus does not come with a Minefield Token. You are meant to use the Minefield Token that comes with the Starter Set.

As the designer of this expansion, I did not request a Minefield Token because I didn't realize that players would be so interested in acquiring the Mines in multiples. My goal with this card was simply to create a new use for the existing Minefield Token!

The reason I bring this up now is so that people understand that this was my personal miscalculation. I am 100% sure that WizKids would have provided a Minefield Token if I had requested one.

Andrew
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D Conklin
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Andrew Parks wrote:
In the interest of full disclosure, I will have you know that the Praetus does not come with a Minefield Token. You are meant to use the Minefield Token that comes with the Starter Set.

As the designer of this expansion, I did not request a Minefield Token because I didn't realize that players would be so interested in acquiring the Mines in multiples. My goal with this card was simply to create a new use for the existing Minefield Token!

The reason I bring this up now is so that people understand that this was my personal miscalculation. I am 100% sure that WizKids would have provided a Minefield Token if I had requested one.

Andrew


Ok Andrew, now you're just showing off.... designer diaries to explain the process behind game decisions, actively participating in the boards, answering questions ad infinitum, clearing up rulings on OP events, putting together & maintaining a FAQ, AND NOW taking full responsibility for what some might consider a minor flub.

Really man, you are amazing.

I personally will probably buy two of this expansion just for the cloaked mines, and since I have two starter sets/minefield tokens...it's really not a big deal for me.

I'm sure we could think of some way for you to "make it up to us". devil
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Andrew Parks
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LOL, well thanks for your understanding. When I saw all the discussion of setting up 2 Cloaked Minefields as an answer to the current tournament emphasis on Cloaking, I got excited until I remembered that the set did not come with a Minefield Token. Then I just got mad at myself! angry

Andrew
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Brandon Holmes
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It's easily fixed. Just create a mine on another expansion ship and include 1, or even better, 2 tokens with that

Oh and thanks for the explanation!
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Scooter of the Ancients
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The lack of Mine Token only becomes a problem if I'm flying the Praetus AND the Enterprise-D with mines. Or I'm flying the Praetus, and my wife is flying the Enterprise-D with mines... because we only have one set between us.

In related news, Minefield Tokens are about to become a hot selling item on Ebay.
 
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Gah!

Well thanks for explaining Andrew.

Would it be possible to include extra mine tokens in a 'not to distant' expansion and/or make a printable template available through 'print and play'?

 
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Andrew Parks
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I will definitely keep these suggestions in mind!

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Lee Long
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Hmm that's annoying. Luckily I have 2 starter sets.
 
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Lee Long
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Another issue Andrew, albeit a minor one.

Romulan mines only target the enemy, whereas Federation ones hit anyone. If you end up with multiples of each on the board, it's gonna be a problem.

Pretty sure I'll be making some custom tokens for this. Seems to be quite an oversight.
 
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Lee Long
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Thinking about this, adding a romulan / federation icon to either side of the template would solve this whilst not causing tournament organisers to cry foul.
 
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