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Subject: Lets talk duplicate ships. rss

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Jonathan M D Thomas
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Duplicates of ships are absolutely not necessary to play the game, but at the same time some ships just want to be played in multiples for either gameplay and/or ascetic reasons. So an interesting idea is to figure out how many of each ship would be practical to own over time. I'd love to see other's thoughts on this idea.

Federation:
Galaxy - 1 - While the neamed version is fantastic with its 360 arc, the generic galaxy just isn't great, turns like a cow, and most of the crew are named so multiples don't do much good. The torpedoes are nice, but the Defiant has the same and better. Its one of the few federation ships with a natural 4 attack at this time, so it has that going for it. Unless you want the extra attack value base, there are probably better options than a generic galaxy.
Defiant - 3 - Hands down, the defiant class is the most maneuverable ship in the federation fleet and only one with a 'come about'. Coupled with its decent defensive stats, tech slot and rear firing arc, multiples play very well. Also multiples gives you extra copies of those quantum torpedoes which are very strong.
Constitution - 2 - Other than playing the Kobyashi-Maru, this ship isn't that great compared to the federation's other offerings. It has a nice 180 arc, but sadly no rear arc. Some great crew in this expansion, but again they are all unique and multiples don't do much for you. I'd purchase a second for an additional copy of Cheat Death or one of the other elite talents. You 'could' run a squad of 4, but why would you?
Miranda - 4 - The ship is OK, but very weak out of the box. However, with the best firing arc in the game and a low cost, its the best ship to serve as a 'missle boat' for dumping torpedoes at an opponent. 4 with torpedoes can pump out a considerable amount of damage if torpedoes are your thing and your meta allows it.
Nebula - 1 - The good: it has 4 attack and a non red turn on a big Federation ship. The bad: it has only a 90 degree forward arc and no rear arc. If the Nebula had better arcs, it would be a 'perfect' federation ship and we'd be fighting on ebay for the OP4 prize. Alas, it ends up with a stat line more like a Jem'hadar ship. Nevertheless, its a well costed ship with a nice ability and some nice crew and 1 is definitely welcome in fed power builds.
Excelsior - 2 - While it lacks a 4th attack dice, the excelsior class has everything else a fed player could want; tough hull, wide arcs, a decentish dial, and a tech slot. I can definitely see a 2 ship D and Excelsior build happening somewhere with the named ships; in ways, the Excelsior is a superior ship to even the D. I see 2 of these as a nice escort for the D with their toughness and wide firing arc. Having 2 transwarp drives also opens up a plethora of fleet building possibilities. While you could run 3, 2 and the D will generally be a superior option.
Nova - 1 - Generally speaking, it is an inferior Miranda class since it has 90 degrees less arc and the same stats. It does however have a tech slot. The only thing that could get me to purchase multiples is navigational deflector and even that is not really that usable.
Intrepid - 1 or 2 - One is almost a requirement. The ship is fantastic in the named variety and has a load of great crew options. Unfortunately most of the usablr stuff is all unique so no value in multiples. The generic is probably the best generic heavy for the Fed at the moment with 4 attack and all white moves although a combo of Voyager and the D is probably stronger at this time. A second could be fun for multiple transphasic torpedoes and/or ablative armors for a nice 100 point battleship.

Klingons:
Vor'Cha - 3 - The Vor'Cha is a mainstay TNG Klingon ship and just looks cool in multiples. The named version isn't much better and ship is maneuverable enough so that a squad of 3 can easily tear up some stuffs. More Vor'Cha also gives you more copies of the advanced weapons systems. Ashame it take 3 core sets to get some many
Negh'Var - 2 or 3 - The Vor'Cha's slightly bigger brother. Essentially you trade 2 points for 1 hull point switching from a Vor'Vha to a Negh'Var. Usually some combination of 3 ships between the Vor'Cha and Negh'Var make a nice heavy Klingon build. You could definitely run 3 if you wanted to.
D7 - 5 - If you want to run a big swarm, this is a great ship to do it with. You could run 6, but 5 lets you add better captains and net more overall attack dice. With 5 ships with Gowron, Donatra, and the special Martok, this configuration can pull off 27 attack dice in 1 turn. Will it be effective, doubtful due to its fragility, but it would look really cool. It is one of those ships you either want 1 of or 5.
K'Tinga - 4 - I'd require 3 just to re-enact the Kobiyashi-Maru from ST2. When examining possibilities for a 4 ship fleet, the K'Tinga is quite possibly the best available option as its one of the only 4 attack cloaker and thanks to Gowron, you can get 4 ships up to 22 total attack dice. The rear firing arc does open up some interesting options for Klingons as well.
B'REl - 2 - The main reason to get this ship is usually Barrage of Fire and as an OP prize will cost you dearly if you didn't win one. 2 is really all the Barrage of fire you can easily stick in a fleet and 1 is enough in most situations. The ship on its own packs a huge cloaked punch for a small cost and has a rear arc. You can run 2 with 2 K'Tinga's and get a 4 ship fleet that throws out 25 attack dice coming in cloaked. The ship with 3 hull is definitely squishy and cost me an OP on a bad roll. This ship is the epitome of glass cannon.
K'Vort - 3 - I like the named ship ability, but I'm not too much a fan of the generic. At 24 points for a generic they are in that awkward point position; 4 are possible, but then you get Gowron and 3 generic captains. For a 3 ship fleet, The Vor'Cha and Negh'Var are generally superior and for a swarm, the K'Tinga, B'Rel and D7 drop off more dice. The K'Vort for me will be the ship I go to when I need to add/subtract points to make the fleet I want and end up with 24 left. I'll likely fly the named with my Valdores at some point since it essentially acts Romulan. Nostalgia will definitely lead a few people to fly a squad of these.
Raptor - 1 - The ship is a worse D7 other than possessing a tech slot on the generic. None of the non-unique upgrades are all that great. Not a good reason to get multiples unless you want an enterprise era Klingon fleet.

Romulans:
D'Deridex - 3 - I'm honestly not a fan of the ship. It does however look gorgeous and have a nice hull/shield rating to go with a tech slot. That being said, I like a few just for some of the upgrades, namely counter attack. With the OP3 prize also a D'Deridex class, its nice to have a copy or 2 of the non unique romulan pilot or weapons array upgrades.
Valdore - 2 - Probably the best big Romulan Ship that will be released and the ship just looks so pretty. 2 are a nice flight group with a support ship and let you play the Scimitar scenario basically as the movie goes. 3 are definitely flyable, but only with minimal upgrades. The ship is great, the upgrades are nice. Donatra is a top captain and the Tactical Officer is underrated and not unique.
Science Vessel - 2 maybe 3 - Yes, you could run up to 7, but the ship is best in a support role for captains with global abilities. 2 can give you 2 copies of interphase generator, but otherwise there is not too much incentive.
Bird of Prey - 2 to 7 - The ship is a swarm candidate, but I doubt that strategy will be effective. 6 with Donatra gives you 17 attack dice with room for more upgrades. If you are not concerned with a BoP swarm, extra copies would be nice to have for extra mine and plating upgrades. Its feasable to run as many as 7 mines, but doubtfully a good idea to actually do so.
Scout Ship - 1 - Its a science vessel with an extra defense dice. The two ships definitely compete for the same roll as a 'VIP chariot'. 1 should be all you ever need as none of the upgrades are that fantastic.
Bird of Prey (ToS) - 3 - Other than the big heavies, its the most usable attack ship the Romulans have, although that isn't saying much. Centurion is nice to have up to 3 copies for shenanigans with Varel and Nuclear mines are also fun to have in multiple.

Dominion:
Galor - 4 - Of any of the ships, I'd love to try 4 with Galors the most. 7 total toughness and 4 attack each makes an interesting pile of hull to fly around with that 180 degree arc. Their handling sucks, but squadron flying 4 could possibly help mitigate that. Maybe I just like Cardassians, lol.
Breen - 2 - The ship and weapons are nice, but unfortunately only in the hands of high skill captains. With the high cost to kit one out, I can never see a use for more than 2
Jem-Hadar fighter - 3 or 4 - 1 fighter definitely will not be enough. 3 would probably be sufficient, or 4 if you really like them. 3 or 4 with suicide attacks could be hilarious. They are a quite maneuverable ship, but also very squishy,
Keldon - 4 - The Keldon gives the Dominion 5 attack with battlestations, a 180 arc and the option to cloak! The maneuver dial is lousy, but it can pack a wallop on the 1st pass. 3 should make a standard squadron and is what I purchased, but it is not impossible to run a fleet of 4 as they point the same as the Galor, trading attack for shields. Running 4 with 20 attack and battlestations would definitely be fun, although I think the Galor is a bit better suited for that squad with its higher toughness. Its nice to have options.
Jem-Hadar Battleship - 1 or 3 - The ship itself is nice, but maneuvers like a tugboat with a 90 degree forward arc. One is fun to fly and looks great, two would not work nearly as well with the maneuver deficiencies. The main reason for multiples is shroud to go with Weyoun and conditional surrender. You'll either want 1 for the ship, or 3 if you want to be shroud-a-licious.

Ferengi
D'Kora - 1 to 3 - The D'Kora on paper is the Constituion class with a 90 arc versus a 180 arc and a 1 reverse versus a 2. The named ship ability is essentially a +1 attack and free target lock which is nice. The ship isn't all that great, but definitely looks fantastic and Conditional surrender is a fun but cruel trick. If you want to play pure Ferengi, you'll need 3 at this juncture. If you want to play with the EM pulse or missle launchers, you'll probably want 2. Otherwise 1 is sufficient as you'll likely not use the ship often.

Bajorans
Bajoran Interceptor - 5 - This guy looks to be a fantastic swarm ship at 16 points. You could run 6, but 5 with some upgrades would very likely serve you better. With a weapon that fires at skill 10 (potentially) and a maneuverability upgrade that are nonunique, multiples are not wasted.
Bajoran Scout Ship - 1 - The ship is not as good as the interceptor and all the upgrades are unique. One is nice to have. Two don't really give you much

Kazon
Kazon Raider - 2 + - The ship is relatively weak, but does have a 180 arc and 180 turn, which is a 1st. The main reason for multiples is for photonic charges to stack Aux tokens on people or possibly the boarding party if techs start taking off. If you want pure Kazons, you are looking at 3-4 for the time being till we get more ships.

Vulcans
D'Kyr - 3 - We basically have Excelsior 2.0 here, except I like the 1 reverse of the D'kyr better much of the time. The ship is a great weapons platform with its wide arcs. The real draw of this ship is the non-unique aft particle beam that adds rear attacks for 1+ fleet points. 2 points for the beam is fantastic on fed and Klingon ships to add 90 degrees to the capabilities. The Auxiliary Control Room could also become popular if Aux tokens start flying around more freely.

Species 8472
Bioship - 2 - The names ship is MUCH better than the unnamed, however either way, the ship is very strong. Luckily most of the upgrades are nonunique and the ship has 3 tech slots to use them. Generally you'll want one, but 2 lets you do an Undine fleet.

Borg
Sphere - 2 - An all around great ship. None of the upgrades are too game breaking, but running two of the sphere will be a solid strategy for a long time with their high hull.
Tactical Cube - 2 - Luckily they pointed the cube to where 2 will be playable. I have a feeling the sphere will be a better overall ship, but hard to tell at this point; cubes are hard to kill. The main reason to want two cubes is for multiples of the weapon upgrades Full Assault and Borg Missile, both of which are potentially lethal.

I'd love to see others thoughts on duplicates.
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Thomas Koziatek
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Pretty much nailed it, except (to me) the Galor. Ye gods those thing turn like tugboats.

They are tough though.
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Many similar thought to your post, Jmdt784.

I'm going to be picking up a second starter for the extra dice, maneuver templates......as my friends will be playing from my collection and it would be easier to run demos.

But the 2nd D’Deridex (3rd with the LE, as I'm running an event) is something I want as it's the Romulan ship to me. I could see some people wanting to run a second Galazy Class ship for the Venture...but I'm not one of them. The extra Antimatter Mines, Advanced Weapon System, and Counter Attack I will all put to good use though.

But for the expansions......

The D-7 for the swarm....probably 3 for me.
The Klingon Bird of Prey....probably at least 3 of those.

And I'll have to see how the next Cardassian and Jem'hadar ships turn out before I get multiples of those Dominion ships.

It's possible I'll look at a second Valdore if the LE D’Deridex doesn't appeal to much though.
 
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Michael Ptak
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I had success with a second Galaxy at this month's OP event. The resiliency really helped since the other fed ships out so far don't have as much protection.
 
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Lester Gash
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I'm waiting til they actually sell duplicate ships of different names. Buying 1 of everything (and combining it with whatever my friends have bought which gives us some doubles that way) will do me for now. Mind you, I'm just playing casually with my friends and we combine all our stuff so...

For what it's worth I'll make up dials for the ships that share a sculpt so I get some more variety that way (D7/K'Tinga, B'Rel/K'Vort).
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Jonathan M D Thomas
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traitorarmor wrote:
Many similar thought to your post, Jmdt784.

I'm going to be picking up a second starter for the extra dice, maneuver templates......as my friends will be playing from my collection and it would be easier to run demos.

But the 2nd D’Deridex (3rd with the LE, as I'm running an event) is something I want as it's the Romulan ship to me. I could see some people wanting to run a second Galazy Class ship for the Venture...but I'm not one of them. The extra Antimatter Mines, Advanced Weapon System, and Counter Attack I will all put to good use though.

But for the expansions......

The D-7 for the swarm....probably 3 for me.
The Klingon Bird of Prey....probably at least 3 of those.

And I'll have to see how the next Cardassian and Jem'hadar ships turn out before I get multiples of those Dominion ships.

It's possible I'll look at a second Valdore if the LE D’Deridex doesn't appeal to much though.


I agree that the D'Deridex is 'the' Romulan ship. I'm sad they stated it out with only 3 attack dice. It really should have had the same stats as the Valdore, or retained the shield values and became a 32 point ship. In practice the extra attack die of the Valdore is relevant in gameplay more of the time from what I've seen of the 2 for the same cost, especially for the non-named version.

The Klingon Bird of Prey hasn't been spoiled yet (the version for sale) so I didn't mention it. Based on Andrew's comments that the K'Vort will have a larger hull than the B'Rel we've seen so far I imagine the ship as having stats between the K'Tinga and the Vor'Cha, probably 5/1/4/3 or 4/1/5/3 (The 5 attack version makes sense as it was smaller than the Vor'Cha but had somewhat similar firepower). With these numbers, you 'could' run 4, but 3 seems like the sweet spot.

I'm quite excited for the last 2 Dominion ships as they will give the Dominion Beefy Ships to go along with what the other factions have:

The Koranak, if they go based on the episode should get a cloaking device on the named version, or as an upgrade. I'd hope for a bar with scan and cloak (but no sensor echo) along with target lock and evade, but I doubt this will happen. Stat wise, I could see 5/1/5/4, 4/1/5/4 or 4/1/5/5. It'll definitely get +1 hull point over the Galor. I'd like +1 in the weapons department, but they probably have the same weapons and just go with bigger hull. On a better note, Enabran Tain as head of the Obsidian order should be a 7 minimum and possibly an 8 in Captain skill. Gul Dukat could be in this ship, but likely seems to be in the Jem'Hadar ship instead. I'll likely only get 2 of these depending on what they have.

The Jem'Hadar Battleship should be the biggest non-Borg-cube ship in the game, at ~ 1500 meters it was larger than anything sans a borg cube. I'd expect something like 5/1/7/5 ish for the stats. The hull+shieled should be larger than the current highest ship (the D'Deridex at 10) and it 'should' have a 5 for firepower. Gul Dukat and the Female founder make sense as captains (hopefully both with high captain skill). I'd love to have 2 of these ships to lay waste to everything.
 
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Scott Kelly
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jmdt784 wrote:

Bird of Prey - 2 or 6 - The ship is a swarm candidate, but I doubt that strategy will be effective. 6 with Donatra gives you 17 attack dice with room for more upgrades. A second to me would be nice to have a second copy of the mines and plating just in case I ever wanted it.


You can actually do 7 Birds of Prey with only 2 Generic Captains and named captains on the other 5 that would give you 20 attack die and 20 defense die (with Terrell).

 
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Jared Voshall
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While I mostly agree with your list, I have seen a couple of things that will pull in in a different direction:

Miranda Class - as a straight up ship, it is kinda bad as it has horrendous attack power on its own - but if you run it as a swarm of missile boats, they become a much nastier force. Sure, four 2 attack turns aren't really that menacing - but if you have them all equipped with the 5 point Photons or the Quantum Torpedoes, it makes each of them significantly more frightening.

The Defiant is simply too expensive to fill this role - a Miranda with Quantums or the 5-point Photons costs 1 point more than the generic Defiant, which means that you can throw more of them out on the field for the same cost (though I am definitely going to grab multiples of the ship simply to flesh out my supply of the secondary weapons).

As for the D7s, I could see a Negh'Var with Gowron with 4 generic D7s really tearing an opponent apart with 4 Strength 4 and 1 Strength 5 attacks per turn, especially with a card on the Negh'Var to patch up the Hull or Shields.

Other than those, I feel it's pretty spot on. Maybe up the Negh'Var up to three as the extra hull point can be useful for a three fatty with decent captains.
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Great analysis. I agree completely and these match my purchases almost exactly.

4 galors is loads of fun.
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A fleet of 5 Reliants dominated our month 1 OP event. I wouldn't call them weak by any means. They have the largest fire arc of any ship in the game currently (other than the Enterprise-d's special ability). A single Miranda might not be a threat, but they become an issue very quickly when there are multiples of them.
 
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jmdt784 wrote:

The Jem'Hadar Battleship should be the biggest non-Borg-cube ship in the game, at ~ 1500 meters it was larger than anything sans a borg cube.


That was the Dreadnought, the Battleship was only 762 meters, only 80m or so longer than the Negh'Var, but much more bulky. By the way they did the sculpts in Star Trek Tactics, I think they gave the model a good feel for its size. I can't wait to see how it converts to AW stats.

And even the Kazon had an 1800m Predator class ship, so the Jem'hadar Dreadnought wasn't the biggest ship out there, but it was large. The Jem'hadar had a Planetary Assault Ship that was around 4500m, but I doubt we will ever see that in AW form, unless they go the giant route like they did with the Corellian Corvette in X-Wing.
 
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Will Sanchez
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Ender02 wrote:
A fleet of 5 Reliants dominated our month 1 OP event. I wouldn't call them weak by any means. They have the largest fire arc of any ship in the game currently (other than the Enterprise-d's special ability). A single Miranda might not be a threat, but they become an issue very quickly when there are multiples of them.


5 Reliants would be ridiculous. 5 Miranda class, a little less so. I'm assuming you didn't actually let him run 5 of the unique version...?
 
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sorry, I said the wrong thing. He actually had one Reliant and 4 Mirandas
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Jonathan M D Thomas
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Magius wrote:
While I mostly agree with your list, I have seen a couple of things that will pull in in a different direction:

Miranda Class - as a straight up ship, it is kinda bad as it has horrendous attack power on its own - but if you run it as a swarm of missile boats, they become a much nastier force. Sure, four 2 attack turns aren't really that menacing - but if you have them all equipped with the 5 point Photons or the Quantum Torpedoes, it makes each of them significantly more frightening.

The Defiant is simply too expensive to fill this role - a Miranda with Quantums or the 5-point Photons costs 1 point more than the generic Defiant, which means that you can throw more of them out on the field for the same cost (though I am definitely going to grab multiples of the ship simply to flesh out my supply of the secondary weapons).

As for the D7s, I could see a Negh'Var with Gowron with 4 generic D7s really tearing an opponent apart with 4 Strength 4 and 1 Strength 5 attacks per turn, especially with a card on the Negh'Var to patch up the Hull or Shields.

Other than those, I feel it's pretty spot on. Maybe up the Negh'Var up to three as the extra hull point can be useful for a three fatty with decent captains.


I've thought about the missle Miranda idea, but my problem is if you face a cloaked fleet, you are hosed all over the place and the Miranda will get decimated before they have a chance to fire those torpedoes with their 5 toughness. Stupid target lock complicates life, lol. I usually will run 1 Miranda missle boat if I have spare points, but multiples seems like a large liability. I almost bought a second, but I just can't bring myself to.

I really wanted to like the D7 spam, but ultimately 1 Negh'Var or Vor'Cha tends to outperform the equivalent 2 D7's. The bigger ships can cloak to prevent some damage, can take a hit or two without folding, and essentially put out the same damage output. On top of that, the bigger ships leave room to run some better captains so you can fire sooner. I intended to get 5 D7's, but after getting 2, they just really didn't seem to perform that great compared to other options.

So yeah in a nutshell, swarms don't seem to be that great with the current lineup yet. Of course IMO YMMV

Ender02 wrote:
jmdt784 wrote:

The Jem'Hadar Battleship should be the biggest non-Borg-cube ship in the game, at ~ 1500 meters it was larger than anything sans a borg cube.


That was the Dreadnought, the Battleship was only 762 meters, only 80m or so longer than the Negh'Var, but much more bulky. By the way they did the sculpts in Star Trek Tactics, I think they gave the model a good feel for its size. I can't wait to see how it converts to AW stats.

And even the Kazon had an 1800m Predator class ship, so the Jem'hadar Dreadnought wasn't the biggest ship out there, but it was large. The Jem'hadar had a Planetary Assault Ship that was around 4500m, but I doubt we will ever see that in AW form, unless they go the giant route like they did with the Corellian Corvette in X-Wing.


Look here: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/alien-huge-char... and then here: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/alien-chart2.jp...

The battleship is definitely the large one at 1500 meters with the battlecruiser the smaller ship at 650 meters. I'd actually love to see the battlecruiser make an appearance somewhere (the sculpt appears in tactics iirc).
 
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Jared Voshall
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jmdt784 wrote:
I've thought about the missle Miranda idea, but my problem is if you face a cloaked fleet, you are hosed all over the place and the Miranda will get decimated before they have a chance to fire those torpedoes with their 5 toughness. Stupid target lock complicates life, lol. I usually will run 1 Miranda missle boat if I have spare points, but multiples seems like a large liability. I almost bought a second, but I just can't bring myself to.

I really wanted to like the D7 spam, but ultimately 1 Negh'Var or Vor'Cha tends to outperform the equivalent 2 D7's. The bigger ships can cloak to prevent some damage, can take a hit or two without folding, and essentially put out the same damage output. On top of that, the bigger ships leave room to run some better captains so you can fire sooner. I intended to get 5 D7's, but after getting 2, they just really didn't seem to perform that great compared to other options.

So yeah in a nutshell, swarms don't seem to be that great with the current lineup yet. Of course IMO YMMV


Granted, I haven't had much chance to try the idea out against ships that actually cloak (only just got my second Miranda class ship for the event, and only one of my opponents really used cloak much at all), but unless your opponent is running Advanced Weapons Systems and constantly using the actions to keep them up (as opposed to target locking or other useful actions), you are going to get target lock on them, and if you can maneuver your ship into position (which isn't terribly hard with a rear arc and a 180 degree front arc), you will get off at least one volley (maybe not per ship, but enough to put the hurt on the enemy). I ran a Reliant and Miranda with Riker and Terrell in my first OP event, and it destroyed my opposition (losing 1 ship in my first match, none in my third, and scoring the only kill my second opponent faced for the entirety of the event). Besides, 4 Mirandas with the 5 point Photons/Quantums is still 8 points shy of complete, so enough room for a couple of good captains in the mix.

As for the D7s, they really need to have Donatra and Gowron running with them to cause as much pain as possible, though I prefer the idea of running Gowron in a Negh'Var, then running the rest as generics (which still gives 4 points to toss in some other fun stuff). Really, the more ships you can get bonuses on, the better the build will perform - and you can run a 7 ship swarm and still have just enough room for Gowron to run it if you really want to run a true swarm force.

I have seen the potential effectiveness of the Miranda class ship, and I really want to try out a missile swarm with it (and will, once the Defiant is out).
 
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Will Sanchez
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The Miranda class also works pretty well with Forward Weapons Grid... just to point that out ;-) no target lock required!
 
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jmdt784 wrote:
Look here: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/alien-huge-char... and then here: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/alien-chart2.jp...

The battleship is definitely the large one at 1500 meters with the battlecruiser the smaller ship at 650 meters. I'd actually love to see the battlecruiser make an appearance somewhere (the sculpt appears in tactics iirc).


Both of those images were blocked. We agree that the battlecruiser is the smaller ship at 762m, but it is the Dreadnought that is the larger one at 1500m, and the planetary assault ship is the largest of the Jem'hadar ships at 4500m. Unless the Battleship and the Dreadnought are the same ship and just called different names depending on where you look.

http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/spaceshi...
 
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Jonathan M D Thomas
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delta_angelfire wrote:
The Miranda class also works pretty well with Forward Weapons Grid... just to point that out ;-) no target lock required!


That's actually a pretty great idea I hadn't thought of, thanks. I'll have to try that.

Ender02 wrote:
jmdt784 wrote:
Look here: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/alien-huge-char... and then here: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/alien-chart2.jp...

The battleship is definitely the large one at 1500 meters with the battlecruiser the smaller ship at 650 meters. I'd actually love to see the battlecruiser make an appearance somewhere (the sculpt appears in tactics iirc).


Both of those images were blocked. We agree that the battlecruiser is the smaller ship at 762m, but it is the Dreadnought that is the larger one at 1500m, and the planetary assault ship is the largest of the Jem'hadar ships at 4500m. Unless the Battleship and the Dreadnought are the same ship and just called different names depending on where you look.

http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/spaceshi...


Thanks for posting the picture for clarification. The Dreadnought in your picture is the same as the Battleship from the material I was looking at and the same as the heroclix sculpt for the battleship.
 
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Jonathan M D Thomas
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drscottkelly wrote:
jmdt784 wrote:

Bird of Prey - 2 or 6 - The ship is a swarm candidate, but I doubt that strategy will be effective. 6 with Donatra gives you 17 attack dice with room for more upgrades. A second to me would be nice to have a second copy of the mines and plating just in case I ever wanted it.


You can actually do 7 Birds of Prey with only 2 Generic Captains and named captains on the other 5 that would give you 20 attack die and 20 defense die (with Terrell).



Since the cost of the named and unnamed is the same, it will definitely reduce the swarm effectiveness just a bit.
 
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Jonathan M D Thomas
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Edited the OP a bit.

I increased the Miranda and K'Tinga numbers to 4 as both are among the better possibilities for a 4 ship fleet. Decreased the D7 from 6 to 5 as 5 seems to be the sweet spot number for the D7.
 
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Drew Bishop
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I have also had great success with two Galaxy class ships. The Ent-D is one of the best ships I feel because of it's fire arc. And granted its maneuverability is not that great, but if you really think about it, it's one of the only ships that can move 1 or 2 backwards, and has a large range of green maneuvers.

I feel your post up top is correct, but you make it sound like two Galaxy class ships is terrible!

 
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Jared Voshall
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For the OP2 event, I'm going to try running my standard Enterprise-D with two support Galaxy classes, each loaded with the 3 point Photon Torpedoes, with the idea of quickly closing with the opponent, target locking after the first wave of fire and then shooting past the opponent and using the rear firing arc of the Photons and the Enterprise D's 360 firing arc to get a second round of fire of before dashing away in search of a safe area to come around and start it all over again. And if my opponent comes about to give chase, I'll just outrun them and eventually come up behind them some turns later. In this case, having three Galaxy class ships would work out well (though having 3 5-point Photons is definitely quite nice for my Miranda Missile Boat build).
 
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Magius wrote:
For the OP2 event, I'm going to try running my standard Enterprise-D with two support Galaxy classes, each loaded with the 3 point Photon Torpedoes, with the idea of quickly closing with the opponent, target locking after the first wave of fire and then shooting past the opponent and using the rear firing arc of the Photons and the Enterprise D's 360 firing arc to get a second round of fire of before dashing away in search of a safe area to come around and start it all over again. And if my opponent comes about to give chase, I'll just outrun them and eventually come up behind them some turns later. In this case, having three Galaxy class ships would work out well (though having 3 5-point Photons is definitely quite nice for my Miranda Missile Boat build).


It's an interesting idea, and I'll be curious to see how it goes, but I believe everyone except the D'Deridex either has Come About or an arc of at least 180, so they should be able to deliver a pretty serious counterstrike once they see what you're up to
 
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Jared Voshall
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kobold47 wrote:
It's an interesting idea, and I'll be curious to see how it goes, but I believe everyone except the D'Deridex either has Come About or an arc of at least 180, so they should be able to deliver a pretty serious counterstrike once they see what you're up to


It can be tricky to pull off, but the Galaxy class is one of the beefier ships in the game, and should stand up to anything short of a well-coordinated Klingon Alpha Strike or PermaCloak build (in which case, I wouldn't be able to get my torpedoes off), but once I'm past them, the Galaxy Class can match or beat their speed, which will let me get a solid lead on them, which would mean they would have to a) ignore my maneuvers and come at me from the front, b) try chasing after me, allowing me to circle the board and come at them from behind, or c) maneuver the OWPs to try to flank me. In the first case, it'll come down to whoever has the best firing rounds to start with, and I should be able to get one more on my initial pass than my opponent; in the second, I can match them in the turns and outpace them in the straightaways, which should give me an advantage; and in the final case, they'll be taking a lot of fire from the OWPs, which will make my job all the easier. I won't find out how well it works for a few more weeks yet, though, as that's when the OP event is (though I hope to get a couple of practice games in next week).
 
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Jonathan M D Thomas
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I have my second Galaxy class on order (2nd core set, w00ts!!!). I really need to give this ship a try. On paper it seems really bad, but paper never tells the full story. Its still a sturdy ship with a rear firing arc.

It should have naturally had a 180 degree firing arc, but that would also take away from the Enterprise-D's special ability which is why it probably didn't happen. I can only hope the similar Nebula class ship will have a 180 degree firing arc thought the Enterprise-D's ability on the names version would also be nice.
 
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