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Subject: About that Tennessee Volkswagen Union... rss

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Did the NLRB rule on this? Until then it's all alleged. I can definitely see the "National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation" stirring up trouble also. It's not like they (the alleged complainers) got fed up and got their own representation. Which came first, the complaint or the lawyers?
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bjlillo wrote:
For those who aren't familiar with the "card check" process that unions use, workers are asked to sign a card agreeing to allow the union to represent them. Once they get 50% +1, the union gets into the shop. This differs quite a bit from your typical secret ballot election that most countries interested in fairly representing their populace engage in. If a person refuses, the union can apply quite a bit of pressure to get them to sign. Rather than being free of coercion like they would be in a secret ballot, they are hounded to sign the card until they do.


it's funny because you're pretending that coercion in an unionization drive only happens on one side, or maybe that union coercion is more effective than management coercion, or perhaps that the current process is in some way democratic and not already partially public in the first place

so many funnies, BJ! SO MANY
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bjlillo wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
For those who aren't familiar with the "card check" process that unions use, workers are asked to sign a card agreeing to allow the union to represent them. Once they get 50% +1, the union gets into the shop. This differs quite a bit from your typical secret ballot election that most countries interested in fairly representing their populace engage in. If a person refuses, the union can apply quite a bit of pressure to get them to sign. Rather than being free of coercion like they would be in a secret ballot, they are hounded to sign the card until they do.


it's funny because you're pretending that coercion in an unionization drive only happens on one side, or maybe that union coercion is more effective than management coercion, or perhaps that the current process is in some way democratic and not already partially public in the first place

so many funnies, BJ! SO MANY


I take it that you too hate secret ballots like the unions do?


Secret ballots suck. How else are you going to determine who deserves punishment and who earned praise if people are allowed privacy in the democratic process.

Every good Canadian knows that.
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bjlillo wrote:
I take it that you too hate secret ballots like the unions do?


false equivalencies are the BEST equivalencies
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DWTripp wrote:
Secret ballots suck. How else are you going to determine who deserves punishment and who earned praise if people are allowed privacy in the democratic process.

Every good Canadian knows that.


Every good Canadian also knows that under American labour law, there is effectively no secret ballot in the workplace, because in order to even get the "secret ballot" election, you need to first complete a card check drive wherein thirty percent of employees declare "we want a secret ballot election in order to get a union" so effectively anybody who wants a union has to publicly declare it anyway, so there's actually no privilege of secrecy for union supporters.

The result of this lack of secrecy for union supporters means that coercion already exists, and it's dominated by management. One-quarter of union drives end in union organizers simply being fired - it doesn't really matter that it's illegal because the penalties for doing so (when they are applied at all) are minimal. And any other form of coercion unions can do, management can do better, and with a corporate shield to cover their ass as need be.

Basically this is another case of good little conservatives desperately pretending everything in a wildly untenable situation is all right, which is understandable considering how much practice they get at that.
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bjlillo wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
I take it that you too hate secret ballots like the unions do?


false equivalencies are the BEST equivalencies


So that's a yes then? I figured.


see above
 
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Why do unions even exist if they are so terrible?
 
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49xjohn wrote:

Why do unions even exist if they are so terrible?


I prefer to think of this thread as the lull before the storm of political shit that is coming down the pike in another 24 hours, unless the President is able to somehow work out some last minute miracle to prevent the forthcoming shutdown.

Until then, relax, share and enjoy! This thread's flaming is polite compared to what's going to erupt soon.

Darilian
 
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Darilian wrote:
49xjohn wrote:

Why do unions even exist if they are so terrible?


I prefer to think of this thread as the lull before the storm of political shit that is coming down the pike in another 24 hours, unless the President is able to somehow work out some last minute miracle to prevent the forthcoming shutdown.

Until then, relax, share and enjoy! This thread's flaming is polite compared to what's going to erupt soon.

Darilian


It's all smoke and mirrors. We were here in the 90's with a highly divided nation and the same shit... Clinton tried to blame the R's and the R's blamed Clinton and the D's... America snored, the checks went out. Bill and Newt gave each other blow jobs and the world never ended.

I much prefer the comedy of having some Canadian mook presume to lecture this crowd on unions. Now that is hilarious.
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DWTripp wrote:
I much prefer the comedy of having some Canadian mook presume to lecture this crowd on unions. Now that is hilarious.


if you don't want lectures, I highly recommend you take two Learn How Your Own Fucking Labour Laws Work and call me in the morning
 
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DWTripp wrote:


It's all smoke and mirrors. We were here in the 90's with a highly divided nation and the same shit... Clinton tried to blame the R's and the R's blamed Clinton and the D's... America snored, the checks went out. Bill and Newt gave each other blow jobs and the world never ended.

I much prefer the comedy of having some Canadian mook presume to lecture this crowd on unions. Now that is hilarious.


mightygodking wrote:


if you don't want lectures, I highly recommend you take two Learn How Your Own Fucking Labour Laws Work and call me in the morning


See? This stuff is tame compared to tomorrow.

I just cannot wait!!!. I'm getting a front row seat.

Darilian
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bjlillo wrote:
we'll finally be able to infiltrate North Dakota


dude I have been to NoDak and if you were having trouble infiltrating it before then man I just do not know
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bjlillo wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
we'll finally be able to infiltrate North Dakota


dude I have been to NoDak and if you were having trouble infiltrating it before then man I just do not know


The nuke sites, sparky. North Dakota has more nukes than damn near any other nation in the world.


Geez BJ, not like we'd need more than about 4 nukes.

Nuke Toronto- Montreal and the rest of Quebec will join with France. Hit Vancouver, Saskatchawan and Alberta will voluntarily annex with the United States. Let the Inuit keep the Northwest Territories for themselves, and don't worry too much about Nova Scotia.

There. Game, Set, Match.

Darilian
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mightygodking wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
I much prefer the comedy of having some Canadian mook presume to lecture this crowd on unions. Now that is hilarious.


if you don't want lectures, I highly recommend you take two Learn How Your Own Fucking Labour Laws Work and call me in the morning


Chris, you really are a fucking moron. Leave it to a Canadian moron to be incapable of discerning a difference between the two "things" you presume to lecture us about.

Nonetheless, down here we understand why unions work when they do and why they fail when they fail. Part of what makes America great is that we already understand shit that Canadians just discovered and now think they are qualified to lecture on. So, go read some comix and write a blog dude. or better yet, come back tomorrow and tell us how we're all gonna die when the economy fails due to Bohner having a hate-boner for prosperity.
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bjlillo wrote:
Darilian wrote:
See? This stuff is tame compared to tomorrow.

I just cannot wait!!!. I'm getting a front row seat.

Darilian


Dude, the government is going to be shut down tomorrow. That means people will start dying in the streets, old people will be eating dog food, anarchy will reign, and we'll finally be able to infiltrate North Dakota and shoot those nukes into Canada. I'll have too big a smile on my face to be an asshole to anyone.


I wonder if the internet will still work tomorrow after the NSA shuts down all of their internet monitoring computers?
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mightygodking wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
it's funny because you're pretending that coercion in an unionization drive only happens on one side, or maybe that union coercion is more effective than management coercion, or perhaps that the current process is in some way democratic and not already partially public in the first place


false equivalencies are the BEST equivalencies


FIFY
 
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sfox wrote:
I wonder if the internet will still work tomorrow after the NSA shuts down all of their internet monitoring computers?

No worries, the NSA is essential, no shutdown there.
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jmilum wrote:
sfox wrote:
I wonder if the internet will still work tomorrow after the NSA shuts down all of their internet monitoring computers?

No worries, the NSA is essential, no shutdown there.


The NSA uses government contractors, who will not be working tomorrow if the shutdown happens.
 
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rshipley wrote:
jmilum wrote:
sfox wrote:
I wonder if the internet will still work tomorrow after the NSA shuts down all of their internet monitoring computers?

No worries, the NSA is essential, no shutdown there.


The NSA uses government contractors, who will not be working tomorrow if the shutdown happens.


But who will monitor their SO's phonecalls?!
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rshipley wrote:
jmilum wrote:
sfox wrote:
I wonder if the internet will still work tomorrow after the NSA shuts down all of their internet monitoring computers?

No worries, the NSA is essential, no shutdown there.


The NSA uses government contractors, who will not be working tomorrow if the shutdown happens.

That's not necessarily so. During the 1995 shutdown only 20% of the federal contractors were furloughed. And then only because the shutdown lasted so long.

Case in point, I am a federal contractor and was informed that a shutdown would not affect me.
 
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jmilum wrote:
rshipley wrote:
jmilum wrote:
sfox wrote:
I wonder if the internet will still work tomorrow after the NSA shuts down all of their internet monitoring computers?

No worries, the NSA is essential, no shutdown there.


The NSA uses government contractors, who will not be working tomorrow if the shutdown happens.

That's not necessarily so. During the 1995 shutdown only 20% of the federal contractors were furloughed. And then only because the shutdown lasted so long.


OK, at least some of whom will not be working tomorrow...

In general, people who do essential day-to-day operations will probably stay on during a shutdown, but people who do longer-term stuff (design, planning) probably won't.

Quote:
Case in point, I am a federal contractor and was informed that a shutdown would not affect me.


I'd expect the shutdown to affect fixed price vs. time & materials contracts differently as well.
 
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bjlillo wrote:
I don't remember who, but someone was really excited about the UAW opening up shop in a Volkswagen plant down in Tennessee. Shockingly enough, the UAW had to resort to dirty tricks to get workers to sign on to having the union represent them.

Quote:
Eight Chattanooga Volkswagen workers have filed complaints with the National Labor Relations Board saying they were misled or coerced into signing cards requesting union representation at the plant.

They filed the charges against the United Auto Workers union through the NRLB’s Atlanta office with the assistance of attorneys from the Washington, D.C.-based National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation. The workers were not immediately identified.


For those who aren't familiar with the "card check" process that unions use, workers are asked to sign a card agreeing to allow the union to represent them. Once they get 50% +1, the union gets into the shop. This differs quite a bit from your typical secret ballot election that most countries interested in fairly representing their populace engage in. If a person refuses, the union can apply quite a bit of pressure to get them to sign. Rather than being free of coercion like they would be in a secret ballot, they are hounded to sign the card until they do. Here are a few of the methods they used in this instance:

Quote:
The workers who filed the complaint say they were told by UAW organizers “that a signature on the card was to call for a secret ballot unionization election,” the foundation said.

“They also allege other improprieties in the card check process, including using cards that were signed too long ago to be legally valid,” the group said.

Workers also have had problems reclaiming their signed cards from the union, said Mark Mix, the foundation’s president.

“Despite making it so easy to sign union ‘cards’ at the workplace, UAW union officials are now demanding that workers go to the union office to exercise their right to reclaim their cards,” Mix said. “This case underscores how card check unionization schemes make it easy to check in, but impossible to check out.”


Luckily this appears to be a case where Federal law isn't completely moronic.

Quote:
Under federal law, Volkswagen management can either accept the union based on the signed cards, or call for a secret ballot of the workers. The company has indicated recently that it won’t decide the matter for several months, and that it most likely would require a vote to certify the union.


Hopefully Volkswagen management will do the right thing and force a secret ballot election so this plant and its workers can be saved from the albatross that is the UAW.


No surprise there. The only way to make a union drive successful is massive intimidation and bullying, whether by outside sources or "evangelists" for the union within the company. Even better, there's usually an envelope full of cash available for the people who really roll up their sleeves and put some pressure on to get those last few cards in. While I was in my last job the teamsters offered our warehouse manager $5000 under the table to get the union conversation started in our building. They told him to focus on the Hispanics and let them think they would have immigration trouble if they didn't get on board. Also that he should only have the cards in English so they'd have to get someone pro-union to "explain" it to them. They didn't realize our guy was married to a Mexican woman and a little sensitive about casual condescending racism. Even better, after he turned them down we got some amazingly coincidental rate increases from all the carriers we used for local deliveries who ran union shops.

Watch out for that management intimidation, though. Whew boy. When companies start trying to prevent corrupt, toxic organizations from taking over their business that's just EVIL.
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