Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
34 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Sergeants Miniatures Game: Day of Days» Forums » Rules

Subject: Any chance of getting a copy of the 2.0 rules posted? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jason Williams
msg tools
mbmb

Last week it was posted on the SMG facebook page that the 2.0 rules were being finalized. Is there any chance of getting an advanced copy of the 2.0 rules posted?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is every chance, but only when they are done.

If I get them, I will post. Rob may post directly.

Heaving lifting and production finalizing are happening right now also.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Pseudonym
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Good to hear things are finalizing.

After Red Devils ships, how long until we see the new items from the Kickstarter "unlocks" like the mortars and expansions show up on the LBG store? Just wondering.

-Jeff M.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
United States
Lowell
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hanomag wrote:
Good to hear things are finalizing.

After Red Devils ships, how long until we see the new items from the Kickstarter "unlocks" like the mortars and expansions show up on the LBG store? Just wondering.

-Jeff M.


Well Jeff, considering Jeff B. told us all a little while ago that he was confident that Red Devils will ship out at the end of September, and yet the rules are just being finalized now, I'd say it's not likely that a solid timetable could be given for the "unlocks" being made available.

I had scheduled a game day at the end of Oct. with a friend I don't get to see too much in hopes that the RD were being shipped as Jeff said, but it looks like it will be a Carentan scenario instead.

I'm mostly going to forget about Red Devils and not care about the updates. When the package arrives, then it will be a pleasant surprise.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Pseudonym
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I remember a while back that they said they had about half ready to go out the door but they wanted to wait and ship them all out at once so it didn't split the community. Which I'm fine with. I imagine that they went over the rules more to make sure they were clear and concise while the second half of production caught up and from that made some changes, hence why they are not posted yet.

I would think that Red Devils should ship within the week. They had said end of Oct and I'm ok if that bleeds into Sept by a week, however if it is longer than that I would hope they would’ve told us by now. The facebook page updates almost daily now so we should hear something soon. MAYBE EVEN THE NEXT POST!!!

-Jeff M.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
United States
Lowell
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, I'm fine with getting it when I get it, I'm just not putting much stock into shipping dates or anything like that because anything can happen to set it back. So I'm just not paying attention to updates.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Pseudonym
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hanomag wrote:
MAYBE EVEN THE NEXT POST!!!

-Jeff M.


Or not.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gents, I hate to disappoint you further, but the "daily" FB posts are totally independent of what is happening in production, posted by someone who has nothing to do with production. (That would be me.)

I certainly post any news I get, but you will note much of the "daily posts" is stuff like histories of the weapons being used or the interesting story about the D-Day sand art... stuff I think might be of interest to SMG folks, but not at all related to the status of where things actually are in the production process. The good news--if you can call it that--is that these posts from me don't represent anyone at LBG spending time on FB instead of on manufacturing all the Red Devils stuff as fast as they can.

To summarize the overall problem one more time, I invite anyone to review the entire Red Devils program and all the offers and realize how many scenarios (50+) and map tiles (40+) there are, plus battle modules, new kinds of specialists, custom sergeants for both UK and German sides (meticulous, time-eating work), the fusiliers (both specialists and battle modules involved), lots more 3-D terrain, literally thousands of painted figures... and all the rest... it's a huge undertaking that really involves more than doubling the universe of SMG stuff all in one swoop.

And on top of everything else, the collective preference has finally been recognized that "get it right" is the priority over "get it faster."

Was it overly ambitious? I think everyone at LBG would agree. Was the production estimate, and revised estimate, also overly ambitious? We all know it has been.

Is this going to be very, very cool when it finally ships?

I am confident it will be. I'm sure they appreciate everyone's patience and, based on past history, I suspect they will find some extra way of thanking all for that (pure speculation on my part-- don't hold them responsible for my guesses!).

We know it's going to be good when it comes. Let's do our best to just let it come.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
United States
Lowell
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
At this point Kevin, that's what I'm doing. Just letting it come.

My hopes had gotten raised a bit when Jeff posted that he was comfortable that the game would start shipping at the end of September, but I should have just ignored that timetable.

So to me from now on, release dates of future products, online registration/campaign stuff etc. are meaningless.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
fightcitymayor
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
"This is a really weird game, and you’ll find that most people will not want to play this."
Avatar
mb
kduke wrote:
To summarize the overall problem one more time, I invite anyone to review the entire Red Devils program and all the offers and realize how many scenarios (50+) and map tiles (40+) there are, plus battle modules, new kinds of specialists, custom sergeants for both UK and German sides (meticulous, time-eating work), the fusiliers (both specialists and battle modules involved), lots more 3-D terrain, literally thousands of painted figures... and all the rest... it's a huge undertaking that really involves more than doubling the universe of SMG stuff all in one swoop.
I don't remember anyone disagreeing that this isn't a big undertaking, but that's not even the issue (LBG's production processes are LBG's problem, not the backers' problem.)
The issue has been the rinse-&-repeat cycle of:

Milestone date is announced...
Date comes & goes with no product...
Apology is issued for not living up to what was pledged.

On August 29th, we were told:
LBG wrote:
You can expect and in fact demand many updates over the next month. We are ready to show you what your support has created.
Frankly, I'm surprised more people haven't piped up about the lack of updates since then.
Because you can't have it both ways: Fishing for sympathy with the "inviting anyone to review the entire Red Devils program" sob story, but at the same time missing self-imposed deadlines.
Again, from the 8/29 update:

LBG wrote:
At this point, we are comfortable enough with the course of the project to say we can start shipping in late September and should finish in early October.
Like Hahma, I too am resigned to simply "getting it when I get it," but I've arrived at that place out of disappointment & frustration with the communication process and not through any zen feeling of inner peace & gratitude.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"Invited to review" wasn't intended as a sob story.

And I'm done here.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
United States
Lowell
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Unfortunately Kevin, you have the unenviable job as the middle-man between the customer and the man behind the curtain. I can only speak for myself, but none of my comments have been directed toward you personally, and I doubt anyone else's has either. You just happen to be like the customer service person at a store or other company that hears a lot of crap about stuff that you have nothing to do with.

I don't know how much you check out other games threads here at BGG, but SMG isn't the only one that has people voice their opinions, and not everything is happy happy joy joy there either.

Dungeon Roll is a small $15 Kickstarter game that came out a little while ago that had some minor rules ambiguity. Some people had more issues and were up in arms about it.

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game just came out and has over 100 pages of threads already. A lot of it is positive but a good bit is negative about the rules clarity or cost for the adventure cycle etc.

Many other games have similar issues, and believe me, there is a lot more negative things said in some other games threads.

People get up in arms about a $15 or $50 game when things aren't "right". So when people drop $225-$700 bucks on a kickstarter project like for RD, then they certainly have at least as much reason to voice concerns as others do with much cheaper games.

Another thing that is different, is that in a lot of games threads, the designer actually is the front line guy answering questions and dealing with people. Jerry Hawthorne, the designer of Mice and Mystics is every bit as busy as Jeff B., but he's out here answering questions as much as possible. The designer of Pathfinder is out answering questions and dealing with the public. So those are some other things that are different.

Nothing's personal about anyone's criticisms. But are people just supposed be a bunch of schlepps and accept things no matter what without complaint?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think people have been remarkably patient with LBG since the first days of SMG. (And I do check other threads a lot.)

I was just pointing out that my reciting the circumstances was not intended to generate sympathy (sob story), but hope for some understanding (not necessarily the same thing).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
United States
Lowell
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I totally understand the circumstances and great deal that is going into the project. I for one sated from the get go that there was no way RD would be done by May because it was such a huge endeavor.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Pseudonym
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It's interesting if not ironic that the stretch goals seem to have stretched out the time frame.

While I am of the opinion that I would rather have RD "right" before "fast", I do think that I/we have had less than (what I would call) enough updates. And I mean updates about the production and not bits within the game. While I enjoy the posts about the game (and WWII) that Kevin has posted, it has been rather quiet about production and we are sitting on the tail end of the last deadline. I think people are worried that no news = bad news. That, in my opinion, is the biggest cause of strife lately.

-Jeff M.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Koch
United States
Omaha
Nebraska
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Patience is always a required commodity when it comes to board games and this is only amplified by Kickstarter campaigns. Anyone else in on OGRE? That was supposed to ship last November .... now it will finally ship in a few weeks. Nearly one year late.... a few months is nothing in the long run and will not diminish the joy of playing in the mean time.

I'm with those who think that "Right" beats "fast" .... would you rather the bridge builder get done quickly or have a bridge that lasts?

-Rob K.

Been lurking for some time... work has kept me from gaming and I am trying to correct that problem!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Ganshaw
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Rob,
Funny you should mention... I was thinking of the comparison between RD and Ogre, both of which I am eagerly awaiting. SJG has done a little better in keep their community informed on a regular basis so their 10-11 month delay doesn't seem so bad.
I have no doubts that the LBG team has been working hard to turn out a first rate product and when it finally arrives, we'll be grateful for the time spent. It's just the waiting between now and then that stinks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Gallo
United States
O'Fallon
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Have the rules ever NOT been available? Nope, LBG have posted every set. They may not get posted when YOU (or I) want them, but they do get posted. Do they say everything YOU (or I) want them to say? Nope, but the game has been playable and enough fun that a lot of us have stuck with it.

The number of Kickstarters that I have backed that have been on time are VASTLY outnumbered by those that are late. If I add a "grace period" of three months to the shipping expectations the "on time" games are still VASTLY outnumbered by the late games. It just seems to be the nature of kickastarted game projects. I, also, chalk it up to stretch goals, which are not accounted for in delivery projections that are fixed at project launch.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
United States
Lowell
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sure a lot of Kickstarters are past their estimate date. More common than not, though Council of Verona KS is going to be shipping early for me

A lot of times there are issues because of shipping from China or customs issues when they do arrive in port. When those delays happen, I've seen publishers communicate that there is a delay for such and such reason and it's out of their control etc.

It's common for them to be late, and like I said before, I certainly never expected RD to be done in May. No way no how. Ironically when I posted that a long time ago, someone told me that just because it's a Kickstarter doesn't mean it will be late, because they've had plenty of on time Kickstarters. Kind of funny now considering that the consensus is that Kickstarters are usually late.

I think more than anything, people may have some frustration just with the lack of communication or false communication, as in when Jeff finally came forward to speak and said that so much of the production was done and they were comfortable that they would start shipping at the end of September. When the end of September came and they were still finalizing the rules and not going to be shipping, it wouldn't have taken but 5 minutes for Jeff to post a message to communicate that things took longer than he expected and will keep us posted. That communication would go a long way.

Maybe some people have concerns because it could have appeared that RD was put on the backburner for the conventions showing off artillery and tank goodies that were being worked on instead of RD. Considering the long ago talk of online registration, sending soldiers to school for upgrades, online campaign stuff, etc. etc. It could have also appeared that there is a lot of "plans" for things that don't come to fruition. Then there were the super soldier cards (as well as wrong cards people got that weren't super soldiers), that make people worried that there can be similar issues with so much production at once with the Red Devils. And then finally after getting RD, if there are problems with cards, it can take months to get replacements. Then there was the Christmas gift of soldiers cards that didn't have real rules for them (as people were still confused 8 months later).

So to some people, this isn't just about a Kickstarter game being a few months late. Some people could be concerned because of cumulative things over time.

I agree that the stretch goals and add-ons do cause delay issues that are difficult to anticipate. I hope that companies will learn to add extra time allowance if they are planning on doing a bunch of stretch goals in their KS campaign. I feel bad for the people that ordered Ogre and have such a long wait. I would hope that with that kind of delay, there will be no issues whatsoever with rules or components, otherwise what the heck took so long?

Anyway, it's all good. We'll get Red Devils when we get it and it will be well worth the wait. They listened to us that we want it right rather then fast (though communication from Jeff should still have been a consideration). So I'm confident that once we get the game, there will mostly be posts about how awesome it is and how much fun we are having, and put all the other previous issues behind us.




1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allan Doyle

Virginia
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hind sight is 20/20. Looking back now, I can see all kinds of warning signs over the past two years that should have steered me away from this KS.

The fact ‘The Causeway’ never came out.
Well over a year going by with no new products being introduced.
A promised of an online upgrade system that never materialized.
Hints of a campaign system with no follow up.
Hints of Equipment and Tactics, then nothing but a late misprinted Christmas gift/sample with no explanation of it's use.
Hints at Historicon 2012 about Red Devil’s and Fallschirmjäger by the end of 2012, then nothing.

So when the RD shows up as a Kickstarter and me not knowing what KS was, I assumed it was a finished product. I now see how innocent I was. At the time I thought KS was for companies who had a finished product and only needed to raise capitol for production. The KS certainly read that way. I now know there are many types of KS. Some good. Such as those that do have a ready product needing capitol for production. Some bad. Such as those that are only an idea or concept which needs to be developed first. I read from Kevin’s post SMG:RD was the later. So now looking back at LBG’s track record of development and follow through, I feel I made a mistake trusting what the KS said about May. I also trusted in the 2 month delay due to the personal issue of LBG personnel. Now here we are 7 months after the KS ended and we still don’t have a finished rules revision or a delivery date.

‘Done Right’ over ‘Done Fast’ only floats until you pass the ‘Done Fast’ point. The ‘Done Fast’ point was last May. Then you better make the ‘Done Right’ point. That should have been July. We are well past both.

The excuse of needing to stop RD production for normal production and the Cons doesn’t float with me either. LBG made a commitment to me. Now they tell us the Convention commitments were more important the one they made to us. That’s just bad business.

Yep, hind sight tells me not to buy another LBG product unless I am holding it in my hand first.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Rohrer
United States
Medina
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
AKDoyle wrote:
Hind sight is 20/20. Looking back now, I can see all kinds of warning signs over the past two years that should have steered me away from this KS.

1. The fact ‘The Causeway’ never came out.
2. Well over a year going by with no new products being introduced.
3. A promised of an online upgrade system that never materialized.
4. Hints of a campaign system with no follow up.
5. Hints of Equipment and Tactics, then nothing but a late misprinted Christmas gift/sample with no explanation of it's use.
6. Hints at Historicon 2012 about Red Devil’s and Fallschirmjäger by the end of 2012, then nothing.


I am not defending them; that is their job. But...

1. Isn't that La Fiere Bridge, which is out.
2. Lots of new stuff has come out in the last year; not all of it is available from their web site, you have to go to Noble Knights to buy it.
3. Supposed to be in the final stage of development before release.
4. No answer to this, as I don't know what was said.
5. Both have been released; equipment in the various expansions and modules; and two Tactics modules have been released, with more promised.
6. If that is what they said, then they are way behind in their promises. I expect RS to be released this month to the KS people, and in November to everyone else.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allan Doyle

Virginia
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kevin Rohrer wrote:
AKDoyle wrote:
Hind sight is 20/20. Looking back now, I can see all kinds of warning signs over the past two years that should have steered me away from this KS.

1. The fact ‘The Causeway’ never came out.
2. Well over a year going by with no new products being introduced.
3. A promised of an online upgrade system that never materialized.
4. Hints of a campaign system with no follow up.
5. Hints of Equipment and Tactics, then nothing but a late misprinted Christmas gift/sample with no explanation of it's use.
6. Hints at Historicon 2012 about Red Devil’s and Fallschirmjäger by the end of 2012, then nothing.


I am not defending them; that is their job. But...

1. Isn't that La Fiere Bridge, which is out.
2. Lots of new stuff has come out in the last year; not all of it is available from their web site, you have to go to Noble Knights to buy it.
3. Supposed to be in the final stage of development before release.
4. No answer to this, as I don't know what was said.
5. Both have been released; equipment in the various expansions and modules; and two Tactics modules have been released, with more promised.
6. If that is what they said, then they are way behind in their promises. I expect RS to be released this month to the KS people, and in November to everyone else.



All of my listed issues were referring to the time frame prior to the KS. Thus the hind sight showing me the red flags that would indicate LBG might have difficulty following through with the KS.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've placed these into the "file" system but that takes a few days for approval.


SMG Version 2.0 rules are finished. You can see them or download here: http://www.lostbattaliongames.com/images/LBG/SMGRules_2.0web...

While I'm at it:


Update on Red Devils shipping status:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1649576328/sergeants-min...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Kwasny
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Is there any way of downloading and saving a copy of the PDF file for the 2.0 rules?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, there is a "download" button on the screen to the right.

UPDATED

And the rules are now in the File section here at BGG, so you can find them that way too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.