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Subject: Dungeon Dice versus Dungeon Roll? rss

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Meeple Bunker
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I have looked at both "Dungeon Dice" and "Dungeon Roll" and seem to lean towards "Dungeon Dice" being the better of the two games with more replayability to it. However I haven't played either game, is there someone out there who has played both, PnP counts, and would be able to compare/contrast the two together?
 
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Sam Coates
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Well, I can offer you my biased opinion, in case no one else answers.

Dungeon Roll:
It's cheaper
It's currently available
It's a light, quick game
There's not a lot of strategy
Appeals to younger gamers
The game was rushed and needed more playtesting. It will not stand up to heavy analysis

Dungeon Dice:
Still in production
More expensive, but you also get quite a lot more
It's a longer, in-depth game
There's more strategy and player interaction
Appeals to a wider range of gamers
The game is well-developed

My main beef with Dungeon Roll is that it was rushed. The heroes are not balanced. In fact, the result of a game can be determined based on your draw of hero. Kids might not notice this, and are likely to have fun with the different hero abilities. Also, a lot of the rules don't actually work. For example, it is generally a very bad thing to roll a scroll. In the game, you receive treasure tokens with various abilities. They are worth victory points if you don't use them. However, using a treasure will never result in more than one victory point, which makes their use pointless.

I'm pretty meticulous about game mechanics, though. I've had fun playing Dungeon Roll with my kids, but I would never bring it to a group of gamers.





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Martin Karlsson
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Scoates2 wrote:
In the game, you receive treasure tokens with various abilities. They are worth victory points if you don't use them. However, using a treasure will never result in more than one victory point, which makes their use pointless.


First of, I haven't played the game (but read the rules) and I have only a question about your statement above.

You mention that a treasure could only ever give you a single victory point but if a treasure is the difference between failing a level (you have to flee) and finish a level my understanding is that it would be more than one victory point (or experience point).

Example, I fail at lvl 5 = 0 experience and I have to flee the dungeon ending my turn. If I use a treasure and succed = 5 experience points and the possibility to move on to lvl 6.

Have I missunderstood the rules regarding this?
 
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The Shader
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Kinda. You get one xp per floor, it is not cumulative.

Ie you get 5 xp for clearing level 5 TOTAL. Spending 1xp to move from 5 to 6 is a wash.
 
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Aaron Bohm
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Scoates2 wrote:
However, using a treasure will never result in more than one victory point, which makes their use pointless.


Using one of the "hero" treasures that stand in for another hero in order to defeat a dragon would get you more than 1 point.

Also, destroying a dragon could feasibly allow you to continue further into the dungeon, gaining more than 1 point (whereas otherwise you'd be stuck).

Bating the dice into a dragon has many useful combos and can result in oodles of points.

So, I'm not really sure what you mean. Can you give examples of how it's impossible to get no more than 1 point from using a treasure?
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Ryan Lorence Syfargo
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therealtheshader wrote:
Kinda. You get one xp per floor, it is not cumulative.

Ie you get 5 xp for clearing level 5 TOTAL. Spending 1xp to move from 5 to 6 is a wash.


I think what he's saying is that if you don't use the treasure, then you have to quit the level, thereby not gaining the 5 exp.

So using the treasure = 5 exp (-1 for using the treasure)
Not using the treasure = 0 exp
 
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Martin Karlsson
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fargy wrote:
I think what he's saying is that if you don't use the treasure, then you have to quit the level, thereby not gaining the 5 exp.

So using the treasure = 5 exp (-1 for using the treasure)
Not using the treasure = 0 exp


Spot on. Spending treasure in this case would gain a +4 experience (maybe more if I dare press on) and would validate the use of the treasure in my opinion.
 
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Gary Barnett
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The general point being made above ("In the game, you receive treasure tokens with various abilities. They are worth victory points if you don't use them. However, using a treasure will never result in more than one victory point, which makes their use pointless") is largely valid in that if you find yourself using one treasure token to go one level further, then you gain nothing.

It is true, however, that having the treasure tokens can enable you to risk further exploration, hoping that you don't need to use them but knowing that you won't lose all your potential XP if you get a bad roll of the dungeon dice. So, it is also correct to say that, where you've pushed your luck, you can fall back on the treasure tokens to save yourself from "losing" all of potential XP. It is also true that if you use one to defeat the dragons, then you gain an extra XP (and get one treasure back).

Another reason not already mentioned for using treasures to go further would be on the first delve, where it might be worth sacrificing even a couple of treasures to get to XP 5 so that you level up for your second delve.

There is therefore some strategy in how you decide to make use of those treasure tokens (but it is limited) as well as when you use your character's abilities.

But I do think that the general tenor of the point being made above is correct - in that you are not really rewarded sufficiently for pushing your luck in this game. It is one XP per level - and so when you are down to a couple of dice and it is odds on that you will need to use treasure tokens to survive the next level, then there is not a lot of incentive to push on since the benefit of pushing on will most likely be wiped out by having to use that treasure token (or worse two).

I also agree that the use of the scroll seems rather weak and they almost always seem to be used to drink potions to turn them into Champions.

But I too enjoy playing it with my children - and it works quite well for a short solo diversion. It's nicely produced and light fun.
 
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Peter Rabinowitz
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To the original question...

Dungeon Roll is a push-your-luck multiplayer-solitaire dice game. Very light, very quick. Kind of like a thematic yahtzee in that we take turns chucking dice and then see who got the better score at the end. It's also cheap.

Dungeon Dice is a negotiating and trading dice game. Also light, but not as quick. It's the simple mechanic of you roll a handful of dice against a monster who rolls a handful of dice BUT there's also "I'll help you if you give me a 50/50 shot at the treasure." "Wait, I'll help you for a 1 in 6 shot at the treasure!" "Let me help you or I have a pile of bombs ready to mess you up." "Oh before you do anything, will you consider trading me your armor die for my baby dragon die?" Etc. It's also not cheap.

These are two totally different gaming experiences. I own both and do not consider there to be any overlap.
 
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Donn Hardy
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Dungeon Dice feels like a dice version of Munchkin to me. Dungeon Roll seems to be just another of several games with a press-your-luck mechanic.
 
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Andrew Tosch
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donnbobhardy wrote:
Dungeon Dice feels like a dice version of Munchkin to me. Dungeon Roll seems to be just another of several games with a press-your-luck mechanic.


This.
 
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tim thorson
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olimar44 wrote:
donnbobhardy wrote:
Dungeon Dice feels like a dice version of Munchkin to me. Dungeon Roll seems to be just another of several games with a press-your-luck mechanic.


This.


I also agree
 
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Peter Cruickshanks
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Using your treasures can land you big points without even considering dungeon level or the scores they give.

Say you meet a few goblins and roll several chests and/or potions along with them, but you have no warriors. Using a warrior treasure would let you get at the chests for loot that's definitely worth more than the warrior treasure alone. Potentially a lot more.
Say you get scales. Or something like a town portal + the other loot. Or potions to get back a few champions from the graveyard, which lets you go one or two levels deeper for more potential treasure- In short this idea is plain false as these have all happened to me numerous times during play.

The mechanic is in my opinion perfectly suited to this kind of push your luck game.

Same with the scroll, it's a push your luck game, it's all about gambling on getting what you want/need and pushing deeper. Scrolls are perfect for this, even though they're not the best die by any means.


I do however agree the heroes are not very well balanced. That can easily be sorted by just agreeing to use the balanced pool though (those that can use warriors as priests etc) if you really want it to be competitive.
 
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Mark Mitchell
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I have played both quite a bit.

Dungeon Roll is extremely light for me. There just arn't that many decisions and they are pretty much determined by random push your luck elements. Wasn't that impressed to be honest.

Dungeon Dice is a completely different game. I would liken it more to a light version of Spartacus/Cutthroat Caverns in that negotiation and gambling are at the heart of the game. It really is good fun, and quite addictive. Its also pretty quick once you know the game. For me Dungeon Dice is the clear winner in terms of gaming enjoyment.
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Patrick Wilhelmi
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One difference not mentioned so far is the downtime of both games.

Dungeon Roll has considerable downtime as the individual turn can take some time. The gamer who's sitting left of the active player has the privilege of rolling the monster dice but cannot decide anything.

There is not much downtime in Dungeon Dice. There is negotiating who might join the active player, your red dice allow you screwing with the active player etc. And there generally only one roll with some rerolls and executing abilities. Everything goes quiet quickly with a better flow then in Dungeon Roll.
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