Jared Barry
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Hey everyone, I've been really working a bunch to improve my Rulebook in any way possible.

I've finally gotten it to where I'm pretty happy with it, granted Rulebook layout is certainly not my strong point.

Some major changes since the last Rulebook, from feedback of playtesters and fellow designers include a less cluttered background (public opinion tells me they prefer black text over white, rather then white font over black. What are your thoughts?).

As well I've cleaned up the setup overview page to be much more informative and easier to skim.

I also made the back cover a reference sheet for player turn overviews,
an idea recommended by many. (the game will come with Turn order reference cards as well but I think both is fine, and not redundant).



https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wktxbdl6303tsm/Clash%20Rulebook%2...


I'd love to hear any feedback, positive or negative, as it can only
help improve the Rulebook even more.

Thanks again,
-Jared Barry
www.madapegames.com
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Jared Barry
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Also because I know it's hard to be excited to look through a rulebook, heres something pretty to look at from artist Josu Hernaiz.

As they say in Django, you had my curiosity now you have my attention.
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Jared Barry
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Also if anyone else has a rulebook or a game their working on, I'd totally be down to take a look at your materials in exchange.

Just really looking for some feedback. Some main questions I have include;

Upon reading did you understand the premise of the game?

Do you feel you could jump into playing with the help of a reference card for turn order?

Is it too busy?

Would adding 4 more pages help with the readability? Enough to be a worthwhile change?

Would an index in the front be beneficial?

Would a glossary towards the end be beneficial?

Should I add a short story in the middle somewhere or would that ruin the flow of it?


Thanks for any feedback, I really appreciate it,
-Jared Barry
@MadApeGames
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Ben G
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My initial reaction to your rule book is a need to try this game out. That's just looking at the cover and the 1st page you posted into this forum.

I don't have time at the moment to give it a full read, but looking at the turn overview and the card basics, I think I and my group could jump into this fairly quickly.

My wife, who likes deck builders but isn't a hardcore gamer would probably be a little intimidated by it though. If she has time I'll ask her to have a look as well.



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Eli Silver
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Yeah, you have my attention.
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Jared Barry
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Thanks for taking an interest in the game!

I got the chance to print out a couple full color copies
of the rulebook today at work, and I must say I am really
loving the new layout.

It's going to take a little more time to nail it down,
and make it 100% perfect though. I'm considering making
the bump up from a 12 page rulebook to a 16 page rulebook
at the moment. The extra 4 pages would let me space things
out a little better, and probably add a story or full page
illustration.

I'm going to mess with the idea of it and play with the
design a bit in photoshop. Probably more info on that in a
couple days.

Seeing the progression of the game from the early stages
of the process to the current state just lights a fire in
my belly. Which is admittedly fueled heavily by the fantastic
artists on my team.

As the game gets more and more fleshed out, I'm just amazed
at how well my artists have materialized my concepts, and
vision for this world of Asyria.

Thanks again for taking an interest in our game,
-Jared Barry
@madapegames

ps what is the most effective weapon when mounted on a
giant flying bat?
BOOMERANG

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Derek H
South Africa
Johannesburg
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steamlich wrote:
ps what is the most effective weapon when mounted on a
giant flying bat?[
BOOMERANG

Wouldn't that be ... +drumroll+ ... a batarang???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batarang
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Kai Bettzieche
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Ladenburg
Baden W├╝rttemberg
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90MB for 12 pages?

Actually, that's quite a lot ..



At first glance, there have been a couple of things I considered confusing at best, and a turn off at worst. I'll write harsh, but honest in italic, what I as the critical customer think. Normal font is what I, the designer, think:
- the first paragraph asks me to pick up an expansion - so .. am I not able to play this game as a two player game?
- in the next paragraphs, the focus is still on having to buy more stuff for an "epic" gaming experience. Hu? So, the two player variant is rather dull?? Then why has it been designed to play with two players in the first place?

Maybe you might want to offer the variants at the end of the book - and as VARIANTS, not as "BUY ME BUY ME BUY ME!!!"

- "Deckbuilding in Clash!" Deckbuilding? Never heard of it .. what exactly is deckbuilding?

(Just don't mention this term - explain, what there is to do, but do not mention a term, players might not know!)

- FAQ on page 3?? Seriously?? Where is the rest of the rules??
Oh, they're coming afterwards .. hmm ..
funny fact: other game rules have the FAQ written at the end ..

- Pg. 4-7: OK, THAT'S IT!! FAQ on page 3, Herald of Fear page 4, Champion of Hope on page 5, Fear cards (which ought to belong to the herald) on page 6 and hope cards on page 7. Apparently the whole rulebook is just a complete and unorganized mess. I won't read on, next game, please ..

(note: the customer me just left, turned off by the rules of your game alone)

- Pg. 8 combat .. ah, eventually I will wage some kind of war .. ok .. which step was that again? oh .. it has not been mentioned yet .. hmm ..
Oh, and the allies get a fate token putting it to 2 fate tokens - where did the other token come from?

- Pg. 9 setting deck 101? 101? what's this? some kind of magical number?
on the card: "the herald may gain 3" .. 3 what? oh, wait - there is a blue icon on a blue background! yes, after zooming in on 200% I noticed it too. apart from that: the herald MAY gain... May .. or may not .. this depends on what exactly..??

- Pg. 10 Turn overview: FINALLY!! This should come at the very beginning, along with the explanations to each step.

Seriously: Get an organization into that rulebook that makes sense in one way or the other. Up to here it is a complete mess looking as if written without any further thought in a flash of enthusiasm.
Trust me: I know, what I'm talking about here, because I did the same thing, too, with some of my rules ..

Screw 16 pages for spacing things out - do your customers a favour and focus on explaining!
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Jared Barry
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I appreciate your feedback Kai, this is only my second time working on a rulebook, and as I said before rulebook design is definitely not my strong point.

Your critiques are super helpful though and I really appreciate you taking the time to look through it. I intend to go over the organization of it this weekend and make some big changes.

I'm thinking I will have to take a look at the phrasing and descriptions as well. I think my main fault this attempt, was that I was assuming the reader knew too much, I'll start working on being more descriptive with my rules.

Expect a new version probably around Sunday.

Thanks again for taking a look,
-Jared Barry
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Jozsh J.
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Hey, I've read through the PDF and wanted to provide feedback. I know you said you're going to rework it, but I'll go ahead and share what I think.

First: it's overwhelmingly awesome. It's really epic.

But, I think it was too much "awesomeness". It really distracted me, and even slightly, confused me as to what was going on. Perhaps I'm simple minded in that way , but I aimed to learn, and someone else already said it, it didn't seem quite organized.


Let me go down the list of somethings that I feel you should considering tweaking:

1.) The organization. I feel there should be a table of contents or some sort of structure as to what gamers would be learning first, and then second, and so on. Example: 1. Introduction (quick overview of the game). 2. Objective of the game/How to win. 3. Getting started (what you need/setup), etc...

2.) Though the design is awesome, I feel it should tone down a bit more. Though it is cool to get a sense of the world through it all, the rulebook should be more of a guide with the info and not so "attention seeking" with images and content -- so a lot of text and examples/explanations. You can add the sense of tone and feel, but tone it down.

3.) The layout. Touching on organization again, the layout and structure and titles/headers of portions of the rules begin to blend together. There's no set "consistency" due to design/layout. It could be me, but I found myself getting lost and distracted with it all.


In summation: I feel it's screaming "awesomeness" with the design. You don't need to flood with unnecessary artwork and colors, just keep it relevant towards examples and illustrations of mechanics. Definitely come up with some sort of structure as to what the player should read first/next -- the "what, how, when, who" formula. I think it should be simplified in presentation and instruction. Don't be afraid to give an example, even if it's a paragraph long. Do aim to get to the point, but break down how the mechanics work and what to do in situations. Think of adding a glossary of terms and definitions to the book and I think the FAQ should also go at the end.


You mentioned rulebooks aren't your strong point, and if that's the case, then I do recommend looking at how some of the mainstream rulebooks are written for card games. You'll see how the structure/organization could be done, and that the route they chose, does make it easier on newcomers to the card game.

I'll check out the revised version when you post it.

Cheers!

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