jeremy cobert
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60 some years of one party in control and Detroit has now gone from the top to the bottom. if you were betting , which of the top 100 US cities would be the next to fall ?

 
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Josh
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jeremycobert wrote:
60 some years of one party in control and Detroit has now gone from the top to the bottom. if you were betting , which of the top 100 US cities would be the next to fall ?



Simplistic evaluation is simplistic. Detroit was also a city that was above ground for 60 yrs, and yet you left that out as the clear cause.
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Also, please explain how the political leaders of Detroit forced the American car companies to design and build crappy cars and lose so much market share that Detroit was pummeled to its knees from lost tax revenues as those same companies reeled from numerous bad business decisions.

EDIT: and please don't trot out the anti-Union corporate propaganda. Unions didn't force Americans to buy Japanese cars. In fact, in many cases, Union members were pressured to buy American.
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jeremycobert wrote:
60 some years of one party in control and Detroit has now gone from the top to the bottom. if you were betting , which of the top 100 US cities would be the next to fall ?



If "one party being in control" is the defining characteristic of what led to the downfall, then I'm betting on Salt Lake City.
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jeremycobert wrote:
60 some years of one party in control and Detroit has now gone from the top to the bottom. if you were betting , which of the top 100 US cities would be the next to fall ?


We had this same topic when this happened: Detroit Bankrupt, Files for Chapter 9
 
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TheChin! wrote:
EDIT: and please don't trot out the anti-Union corporate propaganda. Unions didn't force Americans to buy Japanese cars. In fact, in many cases, Union members were pressured to buy American.


Way to poison the well and then follow up with a totally irrelevant point.

To blame it all on unions would be silly -- but it's also silly to claim that unions played no role. If you're going to pre-empt that whole conversation by labeling any union criticism as propaganda this isn't likely to be a very useful conversation.
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TheChin! wrote:
Also, please explain how the political leaders of Detroit forced the American car companies to design and build crappy cars and lose so much market share that Detroit was pummeled to its knees from lost tax revenues...

No one forced that upon Detroit's leadership, it is true. But neither did anyone force them to say "Hey, since all of our employers are leaving, let's just borrow up to our ears and beyond. It's someone else's money we're borrowing and if times get rough, someone's sure to bail us out."

To use the word forced in figuring Detroit's foibles is folly.
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The clear choice is Cedar Rapids.
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It is interesting to think about why a city fails, other than a quick blaming of one group or another one doesn't agree with. My theory is that a city has to have a core industry or purpose and can't just be built just because of high population, and when that central industry and the others supporting it shut down, you lose your tax base and thus services such as education and protection, then it continues on a downward spiral. I've heard some of Detroit's area was sold cheaply as new farmland. What do you guys think causes a city (not necessarily Detroit) to fail?
 
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If you had allowed Canadian cities, I would have said Windsor, because, you know, you can see it from Detroit. However, the prostitutes in Windsor have truly excellent shoes, and it's hard to believe they're in any real trouble over there.
 
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However, the prostitutes in Windsor have truly excellent shoes...


How would you know?
 
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Pretty stupid question.
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City of Detroit
-- City of San Bernardino, Calif.
-- Town of Mammoth Lakes, Calf.
-- City of Stockton, Calif.
-- Jefferson County, Ala.
-- City of Harrisburg, Pa.
-- City of Central Falls, R.I.
-- Boise County, Idaho

Have all filed for bankruptcy since 2010 (some have been rejected). So any of these may do so again.
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jeremy cobert
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over taxation and over spending. this is the the long term end game of the progressive movement. Tax the people who are successful and redistribute the wealth to those who are not, that is a sure fire way to get successful people to leave.

my next guess would be Chicago , Cincinnati or Minneapolis. two out of these three are firmly controlled by the Democrat party.
 
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Willward wrote:
let's just borrow up to our ears and beyond


There is a lot wrapped up in this statement. Were the loans taken out to attempt to prop up a failing infrastructure long enough for an economic recovery that never came? Or were they just spending money on parties and dope?

When a city is practically in a 2-3 decade long depression, does the government just use what little money it has to shut down the city and tell people to move away? No, it borrows money to attempt to weather the storm. I doubt anyone in Detroit expected how long and severe the storm would be. To characterize them as spendthrifts who borrowed money at the slightest whim is simplistic. They attempted to prop up a city that lost it's core industry and failed and now are asking for help to restructure.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
over taxation and over spending. this is the the long term end game of the progressive movement.


Yes, our secret manifesto has this as it's central tenet. You figured us out, damn.

The problem with some conservatives is that "over" means "any" and they can't comprehend the complex interaction of various variables of the way the economy, the government and society interplay so they make overly simplistic condemnations of things they don't like as if that magically makes those things the source of all their troubles.
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TheChin! wrote:
Or were they just spending money on parties and dope?


parties and dope http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20101121/us-detroit...

oh and propping up labor unions and feeding money into buying more votes. but other then that I am sure they were doing everything possible to fix the problems.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
parties and dope http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20101121/us-detroit...

oh and propping up labor unions and feeding money into buying more votes. but other then that I am sure they were doing everything possible to fix the problems.


If that was with City money, then you might have a case. I didn't see anything in that article claiming that the money came from anywhere but private sources. Was it bad judgment by the Mayor? Definitely.
 
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Chad_Ellis wrote:

Way to poison the well and then follow up with a totally irrelevant point.

To blame it all on unions would be silly -- but it's also silly to claim that unions played no role. If you're going to pre-empt that whole conversation by labeling any union criticism as propaganda this isn't likely to be a very useful conversation.


It's not irrelevant. The city/county government borrows money with no control over how the local corporations or unions act and interact. I'm not going to back down from the fact that Automakers screwed up first and then went to the Unions to attempt to solve their problem without actually fixing what was wrong. Instead of owning up for almost destroying the Auto industry, they managed to change the dialogue to "The unions strangled us" which is a bold faced lie and my pre-emption was based on that point.

We could get sidetracked on the same old conversation of corporate apologists claiming the unions wouldn't make concessions and then people presenting the facts that Union's did make concessions but they were never enough because the business model was horrendously flawed, if you want to, I guess. I thought it would be more productive to get to he root of the problem instead of rehashing all the various symptoms and consequences of the problem.

Detroit was a one-horse town and when the owner of that horse beat it to within an inch of it's life, you don't blame the town or the stable workers, you blame the horse owner.
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it's time to take another blow to the "chin" as it were

TheChin! wrote:
If that was with City money, then you might have a case.


please feel free to justify Kwame's glorious record. using tax payer resources, hiring friends and family it goes on an on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick#Controversies....

on top of all that corruption and 60 years of government mismanagement , who do they elect next ? another Democrat.... yeah stupid is as stupid does !
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
it's time to take another blow to the "chin" as it were

TheChin! wrote:
If that was with City money, then you might have a case.


please feel free to justify Kwame's glorious record. using tax payer resources, hiring friends and family it goes on an on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick#Controversies....

on top of all that corruption and 60 years of government mismanagement , who do they elect next ? another Democrat.... yeah stupid is as stupid does !


Why would I justify an obvious corrupt politician? It's not like he was re-elected was he? I'm waiting for the evidence that shows that because one mayor was corrupt that 60 years of other politicians are also corrupt, or that decisions made to borrow money to keep the city running was linked to corruption. When you can show that Kwame's corruption proves the Democratic party as a whole is corrupt, then you will have successfully destroyed a logical fallacy that has destroyed the credibility of many mudslingers over the years.

If you really want me to Google for corrupt republicans in order to make the facetious point that all republicans are corrupt yet people still keep electing republicans, I can.
 
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another one on the "Chin"

TheChin! wrote:
the Democratic party as a whole is corrupt, then you will have successfully destroyed a logical fallacy


sure thing, lets look back to some of Detroit's Democrat mayors

Coleman Young , crony capitalism/communist corrupt.
http://www.trevorloudon.com/2013/07/coleman-young-the-commun...

and another one on the "Chin"

ROMAN S. GRIBBS real estate scandals

TheChin! wrote:
If you really want me to Google for corrupt republicans


yes please show me how corrupt republican mayors of Detroit helped destroy that town
generations of liberal policies have destroyed Detroit.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:

Coleman Young , crony capitalism/communist corrupt.
http://www.trevorloudon.com/2013/07/coleman-young-the-commun...


ROMAN S. GRIBBS real estate scandals

Do you even research these things before you post them?

Young: A Mcarthyesque hit piece? He didn't do anything corrupt. How does showing links with communists mean he helped undermine Detroit?

Gribbs: He wasn't part of that scandal. It happened in Detroit while he was Mayor. It was between private mortgage interests and the Feds.

So, again, we have one corrupt Mayor (one who arguably came long after Detroit's woes were firmly entrenched), yet you seem tho think that people who keep voting for Democrats (not the corrupt mayor in quesion) are doing something wrong. Like I initially said, you are barking up the wrong tree. Redirect your blame towards GM, Chrysler and Ford.

jeremycobert wrote:

yes please show me how corrupt republican mayors of Detroit helped destroy that town
generations of liberal policies have destroyed Detroit.


I don't have to, using your logic all I have to do is pull out a corrupt republican and anyone who votes for more republicans is "stupid".

jeremycobert wrote:
stupid is as stupid does
 
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jeremycobert wrote:

generations of liberal policies have destroyed Detroit.


Also, do some research on all the pro-business bending-over-backwards Detroit has done over the years before you make such unfounded claims. They may have backed the wrong projects at various times, but they definitely were not liberal in nature. Democrats aren't always liberal (Clinton) and republicans aren't always conservative (Bush), regardless of the badges people put on them.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
over taxation and over spending. this is the the long term end game of the progressive movement. Tax the people who are successful and redistribute the wealth to those who are not, that is a sure fire way to get successful people to leave.

my next guess would be Chicago , Cincinnati or Minneapolis. two out of these three are firmly controlled by the Democrat party.


Dude, you're hysterical! So many unintentional humorous posts in such a short period of time. Keep 'em coming.
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