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Subject: Anybody else seem to be perpetually unsatisfied with their Corp builds? rss

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Jermaine Snuffullufugus
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Personally, I can build all kinds of variations with each of the Runners, and I'll be excited and enthusiastic about all of them! But for some reason, my enthusiasm just seems to fall flat once I finish up a Corp deck...

It sucks, because I tend to be excited when I first start the different Corp builds, but as I get towards finishing them, I just can't seem to find a happy place with them. Whether I'm unsatisfied with the ICE, or the economy, or whatever, I can't seem to make things whole and effective to the point that I feel okay with it. Even the decks I truly love, I tend to think I'm in trouble when playing them.

A part of me thinks this is just the disparity between the runner and corp cards available, but... I don't know.

Anybody else feel like this? Like you get a killer idea for a Corp deck, but you can never find a way to make it work, while also fitting in all the tools you need to make it competitive?
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I feel exactly the opposite.

I find the corp identities fun and inspiring... I find most of the runners boring, and feel shoehorned into playing one of a few different decks.
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Anon Y. Mous
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Delaric wrote:
I am weird though in that I think the game should be unbalanced and the corp should win most of the time. I think it should be more of a challenge for the runner to win.


A corp advantage would be far worse than a runner advantage. A corp advantage means the runner needs to spend more time preparing and less time running, which drastically reduces the amount of interaction in the game. Obviously 50/50 is ideal. But if there's an imbalance, it's better for it to err on the runner side. Not to mention a major corp advantage in the current meta would be FA-centric.
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Tom Keaten
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I'm with Asmor here. It's taken me months to find a runner build that I'm starting to enjoy, whereas I can play all sorts of corp builds and factions and really like all of them.
 
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Jermaine Snuffullufugus
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Interesting. Yeah, it's not that I don't enjoy playing as the Corps (I genuinely love all aspects of Netrunner), just that I'm never totally happy with how the builds turn out. It seems like I have to put so much focus on getting the deck to function like a Corp should (having enough ICE and Economy), that I end up having to sacrifice the cool aspects of the deck that I wanted to use.

I start with an awesome idea, and it just seems to either get watered down, or I keep it fully intact, and the deck suffers because of it.
 
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Martin Presley
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Dante2k4 wrote:
Personally, I can build all kinds of variations with each of the Runners, and I'll be excited and enthusiastic about all of them! But for some reason, my enthusiasm just seems to fall flat once I finish up a Corp deck...

It sucks, because I tend to be excited when I first start the different Corp builds, but as I get towards finishing them, I just can't seem to find a happy place with them. Whether I'm unsatisfied with the ICE, or the economy, or whatever, I can't seem to make things whole and effective to the point that I feel okay with it. Even the decks I truly love, I tend to think I'm in trouble when playing them.

A part of me thinks this is just the disparity between the runner and corp cards available, but... I don't know.

Anybody else feel like this? Like you get a killer idea for a Corp deck, but you can never find a way to make it work, while also fitting in all the tools you need to make it competitive?


I feel the same way, and I think it's due to the inherent limitations in a corp deck. You need 20 points of agendas and at least 18 ICE in most decks, give or take, which is about half your cards already spoken for, not to mention including enough economy. This is also exacerbated by FFG not giving the corps enough similar tools, which leads to same-y cards and borderline mandatory influence spending in some decks. Making Weyland, for instance, "bad" at code gates was a terrible design, because every corp needs at least some of each ICE, so every Weyland deck worth its salt uses 3 Enigma, and maybe splashes viper, maybe.

Runner decks also have the need to fulfill certain requirements (econ, a way to break ICE, a way to rig up, some tricks) but are generally much more flexible with how many cards need to be allocated to each and what they can bring in from other factions. There's no corp equivalent to "I have 3 MO and 3 Crypsis, and 39 shenanigans"; I'm not saying that deck is good, merely that it is a viable idea, which illustrates how constrained the corp is comparatively.
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Justin
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Weyland and NBN: no.
HB and Jinteki (and Noise): yes.

Edit: I should say, HB is because of KatMan, Jinteki is because of Jinteki (and KatMan), and Noise is because of relative strength to other runners.
 
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hoobajoo wrote:


I feel the same way, and I think it's due to the inherent limitations in a corp deck. You need 20 points of agendas and at least 18 ICE in most decks, give or take, which is about half your cards already spoken for, not to mention including enough economy. This is also exacerbated by FFG not giving the corps enough similar tools, which leads to same-y cards and borderline mandatory influence spending in some decks. Making Weyland, for instance, "bad" at code gates was a terrible design, because every corp needs at least some of each ICE, so every Weyland deck worth its salt uses 3 Enigma, and maybe splashes viper, maybe.


My thoughts exactly. Once I throq in all the required, Ice, Agendas, and Economy cards, I don't have a lot of free space to create my own style. Designing a Runner deck seems to give me a lot more freedom to design a deck that fits my preferences.

Brian
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Drake Villareal
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I find myself perpetually unsatisfied with ALL builds, corp and runner alike.

I go through phases where I love playing one deck and play only that for a while. A while ago is was andromeda, now it's nbn. OCTGN does this to you by not forcing you to play both sides.
 
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Kevin D.
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I feel like working out the ICE mix of a corp deck is very interesting, mostly since I realized having multiples of the same ICE without a good reason is pretty awful. Building a corp deck that is consistent and unpredictable at the same time is a lot of fun.

My current ICE breakdown in my Weyland BaBW deck is like this:
ICE with 3 copies: 2
ICE with 2 copies: 3
ICE with 1 copy: 10

 
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Delaric wrote:
It seems from what I have read and played that if the corp wants to win they need either fast advance or tag 'n' bag. Trying to get creative with corp decks doesn't really work.

Play Upgrades Incorporated and thank me later.
 
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bwridge wrote:
hoobajoo wrote:


I feel the same way, and I think it's due to the inherent limitations in a corp deck. You need 20 points of agendas and at least 18 ICE in most decks, give or take, which is about half your cards already spoken for, not to mention including enough economy. This is also exacerbated by FFG not giving the corps enough similar tools, which leads to same-y cards and borderline mandatory influence spending in some decks. Making Weyland, for instance, "bad" at code gates was a terrible design, because every corp needs at least some of each ICE, so every Weyland deck worth its salt uses 3 Enigma, and maybe splashes viper, maybe.


My thoughts exactly. Once I throq in all the required, Ice, Agendas, and Economy cards, I don't have a lot of free space to create my own style. Designing a Runner deck seems to give me a lot more freedom to design a deck that fits my preferences.

Brian


I'm on this train. There is currently too much required stuff on the corp side to fit in all the interesting tricks and changeups I want. I always start out thinking I want to build a corp deck that does 2 or 3 different things, then pick agendas, then put in ice, then take the core absolute essentials, then realize I've got to cut most of the cool stuff I wanted to include in the first place.

A part of the problem right now is that there just aren't enough agendas. You are required to take a certain number of points, but the selection is so small that a lot of agenda mixes look the same. This will get better.

Another small problem for corp right now is that you must deal with Katman in your ice mix. I look through my ideal selections and think, yeah this is perfect, then look again and say, wait - those are all strength 3 and 4, aargh! And these are both strength 1! Gotta add more strength 2 and 5! And hello, Tollbooth, we meet AGAIN! Oy. A lot of ice mixes start to look almost as similar as the agendas.

I think corp will get more interesting as the card pool grows, even more so than runner. Especially since I'm pretty sure that each corp's individual card pool is smaller than the runner's at the moment (four corps vs. three runners, Agendas having no influence availability, etc.)
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Grish Noren
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HB and Wayland did that for me for a while; Jinteki worked fairly well until Katman became the thing and I did enjoy that deck, but games were taking forever. I moved on to NBN, and I felt like I had a lot for freedom.

Ice is a crutch for NBN, but then you're going fast advance if you're not using much of it.
 
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Bob Gabel
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Ethereality wrote:

A corp advantage would be far worse than a runner advantage. A corp advantage means the runner needs to spend more time preparing and less time running, which drastically reduces the amount of interaction in the game. Obviously 50/50 is ideal. But if there's an imbalance, it's better for it to err on the runner side. Not to mention a major corp advantage in the current meta would be FA-centric.


I think this is super important to understand. Now, I didn't play the original Netrunner, so others may chime in here if I am completely wrong, but it seemed that in O:NR a few of the corps agendas got away from the designers of the game to the point where it was impossible to beat a well built corp deck.

I see a lot of runner cards that I am like, "Really? The runner needed that?" But it keeps the game healthy. We saw a beautiful upset at GenCon this last summer, which really bolstered my faith in the designers of A:NR and shows that the game is still in a very healthy state.
 
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William Frank
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I don't do a lot of deckbuilding--tuning of my primaries, sure, but not much else. But last night I actually built an experimental Corp deck, the first time I've built a second deck since...since I started playing, really. And I'm eager to try it out.

(It's called "Haas-No-Bioroid.")
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Ludovic Gauthier
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I believe the challenge to make a competitive corp deck in the current meta is demanding a tremendous amount of time and efforts, pushing the people towards understanding the corp mechanics better which is a good thing. It would be sad to win games simply by creating FastAdvance or Flatline decks. The struggle makes people try new ideas. That's one reason Jinteki was the deck played by GenCon champion.

I'm waiting for the US and EU tours, hoping to see new things
 
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Martin Presley
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NetEldrogo wrote:
I believe the challenge to make a competitive corp deck in the current meta is demanding a tremendous amount of time and efforts, pushing the people towards understanding the corp mechanics better which is a good thing. It would be sad to win games simply by creating FastAdvance or Flatline decks. The struggle makes people try new ideas. That's one reason Jinteki was the deck played by GenCon champion.

I'm waiting for the US and EU tours, hoping to see new things


To be clear, I'm not talking about the Runner/Corp gap, and I don't think most people are here. I'm talking about the relatively small design space corp decks have.

And just to be clear, I love and get hype for playing corp. Just not building Corp, especially as a faction specialist.
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Ludovic Gauthier
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Aren't your limitations in deckbuilding coming from the meta morr than the design of the game?
Because deckbuilding in corp can turn into total bullshit yet being fun as hell (no ice decks for example, we have yet to see one functionning)
 
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Bill Sullivan
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Delaric wrote:
Damocles346 wrote:
Ethereality wrote:

A corp advantage would be far worse than a runner advantage. A corp advantage means the runner needs to spend more time preparing and less time running, which drastically reduces the amount of interaction in the game. Obviously 50/50 is ideal. But if there's an imbalance, it's better for it to err on the runner side. Not to mention a major corp advantage in the current meta would be FA-centric.


I think this is super important to understand. Now, I didn't play the original Netrunner, so others may chime in here if I am completely wrong, but it seemed that in O:NR a few of the corps agendas got away from the designers of the game to the point where it was impossible to beat a well built corp deck.

I see a lot of runner cards that I am like, "Really? The runner needed that?" But it keeps the game healthy. We saw a beautiful upset at GenCon this last summer, which really bolstered my faith in the designers of A:NR and shows that the game is still in a very healthy state.


I don't think the imbalance would have to be introduced through the card pool. Since my first few games I've thought it would be more thematic if the corp got 2 credits per click instead of 1. This would help the corp deck build since they wouldn't have to worry so much about economy in addition to ice and agendas. The runner should be the one worrying about economy.


Thematically, I seem to recall them addressing it in the original game by explaining that a cost of 1 for the Runner represented literally a credit, while a 1 on the Corp side was a MILLION credits.
 
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Phillip Edwards
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I don't feel perpetually unsatisfied. I built a Jinteki Replicating Perfection deck a few weeks ago and played it well in casual games and a small tournament.

Weyland decks that don't focus on tag n bag are the builds that I seem to have unsatisfactory experiences with.
 
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Martin Presley
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Robotron5673 wrote:

Weyland decks that don't focus on tag n bag are the builds that I seem to have unsatisfactory experiences with.


That's because Weyland has the worst central defense of any corp, and is unique in not having an FA card in faction. SE is the compensation for this, so if it's not at least a viable option in your deck, you may as well not play Weyland at all. I'd argue my deck still is primarily an tempo deck, but SE still needs to be on the table.
 
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hoobajoo wrote:
That's because Weyland has the worst central defense of any corp, and is unique in not having an FA card in faction. SE is the compensation for this, so if it's not at least a viable option in your deck, you may as well not play Weyland at all. I'd argue my deck still is primarily an tempo deck, but SE still needs to be on the table.


I had not thought of it that way before. I've successfuly played SE decks but I don't enjoy them as much as luring the runner into a brain/net damage trap. The end result is the same though.
 
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Delaric wrote:
I must have missed the meta on this, someone please tell me what FA stands for. Fast Advance?
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A good NBN/Weyland deck is anything but an uphill battle if built properly.

On the other hand, it is precisely because Jinteki is challenging and has ample limitations that I love playing it competitively. If playing a Corp was obvious or easy, I wouldn't be remotely interested.

And you know what, it's that much more gratifying when I win (the majority of my games, at that).
 
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Martin Presley
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Robotron5673 wrote:
hoobajoo wrote:
That's because Weyland has the worst central defense of any corp, and is unique in not having an FA card in faction. SE is the compensation for this, so if it's not at least a viable option in your deck, you may as well not play Weyland at all. I'd argue my deck still is primarily an tempo deck, but SE still needs to be on the table.


I had not thought of it that way before. I've successfuly played SE decks but I don't enjoy them as much as luring the runner into a brain/net damage trap. The end result is the same though.


Which is legit, but there are better factions for that than Weyland. You could split the difference and run Ghost Branch, but it sucks against Tagme. That matchup is one reason I love Snare for SE.
 
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