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Subject: An unusual request rss

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Stephen Hurn
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Are there any board games out there which are wargames (ala Risk, Attack, TI etc...) which use Euro-style rules to resolve combat?

I am looking for a boardgame that scratches both the Ameritrash itch and the Euro itch. Preferably this would take two hours or less to play.
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Executive Bear
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I'm gonna start dropping F-bombs. Listen to this: Fart you, fart head.
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Maybe check out Kemet
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Bern Harkins
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Chaos in the Old World uses dice for combat, but it is definitely an Ameritrash-Euro hybrid, and plays in two hours.

It's a worker placement game; it's just that some of the workers are placed to roll fistfuls of dice and slash away at the other workers.
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James Champagne
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RiderPestilence wrote:
Maybe check out Kemet


I was going to suggest this, as well. It pretty much hits on everything you've asked for and so much more.

Review:
http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/videos/v/review-kemet/
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Shane Larsen
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RiderPestilence wrote:
Maybe check out Kemet


Correct answer.

But with a fair warning: your first game or two will take longer than 2 hours.
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Captain Spaulding
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Antike?
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Kristian Mitchell-Dolby
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thedacker wrote:
RiderPestilence wrote:
Maybe check out Kemet


Correct answer.

But with a fair warning: your first game or two will take longer than 2 hours.


You're first game will also be played wrong. I haven't met a single person who grasped the strategy of Kemet on the first play even when I've explained it too them. The problem is that the board looks like a territory control game but it really isn't that at all and if you play it that way against someone who has played before then you are going to lose. Good choice though.
 
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Paul Davidson
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stephen_the_geek wrote:
Are there any board games out there which are wargames (ala Risk, Attack, TI etc...) which use Euro-style rules to resolve combat?

I am looking for a boardgame that scratches both the Ameritrash itch and the Euro itch. Preferably this would take two hours or less to play.


Maybe something like 1812: The Invasion of Canada or 1775: Rebellion would fit the bill.

Tammany Hall is a great area-control game (and thus wargame-like), but with a political theme.
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Leonardo Martino
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World in War: Combined Arms 1939-1945 has an euro resolution sistem. Tom Vasel reviewed it
Friedrich and Maria would be perfect but they're too long.
Take a look at Popular Front

DISCLAIMER: You asked for wargames, I didnt advised you about strategy board games with war elements as some games mentioned above.
 
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Einmal ist keinmal
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Try these lists. Not all are under 2 hours, but it's a good place to start.

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/33050/waros-or-weuros-some...
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/39185/weuros
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/24164/waro-give-me-back-my...
 
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Julien Le Jeune
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Maybe this is a stupid question, but what is considered Euro-style for resolution of combat?

Non-dice?
 
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stephen_the_geek wrote:
Are there any board games out there which are wargames (ala Risk, Attack, TI etc...) which use Euro-style rules to resolve combat?

I am looking for a boardgame that scratches both the Ameritrash itch and the Euro itch. Preferably this would take two hours or less to play.


Stronghold?
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Stephen Hurn
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Shoogoo wrote:
Maybe this is a stupid question, but what is considered Euro-style for resolution of combat?

Non-dice?


Randomness-Action-Result rather than Action-Randomness-Result
 
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Samo Oleami
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Smallworld has most euro resolution type combat. (because well it's an eurogame). No dice, just counting of armies.

CitOW is actually a hybrid, but has dice for combat. Similarly Cyclades. Both are quite streamlined compared to ameritrash games though.

Oh and there's Diplomacy. No randomness in combat.
Also Imperial (that one is a stock market game combined with combat).
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Dave K
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Love 'em even if a few games get scuttled from time to time.
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Mr_Bickman wrote:


Agreed. Not easy to find but matches what has been described very well.
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Julien Le Jeune
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stephen_the_geek wrote:
Shoogoo wrote:
Maybe this is a stupid question, but what is considered Euro-style for resolution of combat?

Non-dice?


Randomness-Action-Result rather than Action-Randomness-Result


This confuses me even more
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Matt Davis
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Generally, in AT games, you commit to an action, then randomness determines the result. Think of Risk where you attack, then roll dice to see what happens. In Euro games, players tend to get to respond to the randomness in some fashion. Think of something like Waterdeep, where you get random elements (quests, intrigue, buildings) and then build your strategy around them. Waterdeep would be a far different game if you got together a team of adventurers and then drew a quest card at random, hoping to be able to fulfill it.
 
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Shane Larsen
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Shoogoo wrote:
Maybe this is a stupid question, but what is considered Euro-style for resolution of combat?

Non-dice?


That's part of it. Also because it's completely non-random, while still remaining variable. In comparison, Antike is non-random, non-variable (players add up their pieces and subtract the units from the weaker player's units. Pure black and white. No additional effects to play, etc. Which--IMO--is a bit boring.)

In Kemet, players have the exact same hand of attack cards to choose from at the start of the game. From there, they can build up their battle/attack abilities by purchasing tech tiles. The only little bit of randomness is that players are all given one Divine Intervention card to start each round. Some of these cards add battle effects. But they all give reasonably balanced bonuses to the players.

Battles are resolved by each player engaged in the battle picking up their remaining cards of their 6 battle cards, choosing one to discard, and one to use in the current battle. So two cards are used in every battle, meaning players cycles through their decks of battle cards every three battles in which they engage.

Essentially--once you get really good at the game--you can remember which cards players have left in their hands, thus calculating the more or less opportune moments to attack them.

As you can see, very different from lining up and spending 3 minutes rolling dice to "resolve" the battle.
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Shane Larsen
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coolpapa wrote:
Generally, in AT games, you commit to an action, then randomness determines the result. Think of Risk where you attack, then roll dice to see what happens. In Euro games, players tend to get to respond to the randomness in some fashion. Think of something like Waterdeep, where you get random elements (quests, intrigue, buildings) and then build your strategy around them. Waterdeep would be a far different game if you got together a team of adventurers and then drew a quest card at random, hoping to be able to fulfill it.


To apply Matt's logic above (Randomness-Action-Result), here's how it works on in Kemet:

Divine Intervention Cards (at the start of each round) --> Player Actions (including attacking) --> Results (either of battles, or other rewards for players)

It's important to note that in Kemet, there is next to zero randomness. The only two elements of randomness in the game are the following:

1. Choosing start player.
2. Each player receiving a D.I. card at the start of each round. (And as I mentioned before, if players are smart, this is a very controlled, balanced distribution of randomness.)
 
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Dan Cordz
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Shogun perhaps? I've only played it once, and that was with three players which was suboptimal, but it seems like it might be just what you're looking for.
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Stephen Hurn
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Thanks guys, there's been some great discussion so far.

Kemet seems like it's the type of game I am after. I did have an ulterior motive for asking this question as I am in the very early stages of formulating the rules to my own Euro/Ameritrash hybrid and wanted to know what else was out there.

It's interesting because it looks as though Kemet plays completely differently to the game I'm designing, but I do really like the idea of the divine intervention cards. Brilliant!

To me it seems that for combat to work in such a game it either has to be a tiny, almost incidental part of the gameplay (think soldiers in Settlers), boring (which army is bigger) or bluff/resource based. I'm not sure it's possible to do compelling combat without a luck element or a hidden cards element.

For those who are interested my game will be going down the bluff route.
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