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Subject: TIE Bombers rss

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Matt H
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OK, so a couple of days back, I got destroyed by a TIE squad that was roughly as follows;

Captain Jonus (22) + Proton (4)
Scimitar (16) + Proton (4) + Concussion (4)
Scimitar (16) + Proton (4) + Concussion (4)
Academy Pilot (12)
Academy Pilot (12)

that may not be quite right, but it was something along those lines.


I found the squad far too powerful, it destroyed my 3 Xs easily, and I'm not sure I even managed to finish one of his ships off (6 hull on a Bomber for 16 or 18 points seems too strong to me).
OK, so I wasn't rolling great, but the missiles where you can re-roll two dice with Jonus, and then change either a blank or a focus, you're often getting 3 hits.

My question is, how should I have played against this squad? And what Rebel squad do you think would give it a run for it's money?

I'm worried that all the answers are going to say B-Wing(s) + .....

Is the game quickly developing into "you need to buy the latest releases just to keep up"? That's what it felt like a little bit.
 
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Xander Fulton
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What was your list? Just 3 X-Wings seems a bit...vulnerable...to most lists, really.
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Jeff Dunford
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Squads to try:

TIE Swarm (overwhelm them with numbers)
Elite Interceptors (outmaneuver the Bombers)
Double Firesprays (with Gunners or HLCs)
4 X-wings (solid all-around, especially with Biggs to absorb some missiles)
2 X-wings and 2 Y-wings with Ion Cannons (Ionize the Bombers and get out of their arcs)
Anything with Expert Handling (shakes Target Locks)
Anything with Cpt Kagi (redirects Target Locks)
B-wings with HLCs and some support (X-wings or Chewbacca or HWK-290)

Also, those Bombers aren't as good at range 1, so close fast and try to deal with them at point-blank range.
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Xander Fulton
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iNano78 wrote:
4 X-wings (solid all-around, especially with Biggs to absorb some missiles)


That was my thought, if the OP was limited to just X-Wings (IE., wave 1 buy-in).

Biggs
Garven
Rookie
Rookie

Maybe give Biggs another shield, or stealth device, or something to extend his life. Maybe R2 Astromechs all around.

But you really want 4 X-Wings or some combination of X- and Y-, if you want to stick to wave 1.
 
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Matt H
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XanderF wrote:
What was your list? Just 3 X-Wings seems a bit...vulnerable...to most lists, really.




Sorry yeah, should probably have noted what I had;
Luke + R2-D2 + Shield Upgrade
Biggs + R2-F2 + Stealth Device
Wedge
 
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Xander Fulton
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xmattuk wrote:
XanderF wrote:
What was your list? Just 3 X-Wings seems a bit...vulnerable...to most lists, really.


Sorry yeah, should probably have noted what I had;
Luke + R2-D2 + Shield Upgrade
Biggs + R2-F2 + Stealth Device
Wedge


That'll have problems with a lot of things - the game doesn't handle "few, elite, pilots" too terribly well at the moment, on either side. You are, particularly, spending a LOT of points on Biggs when he is - by design - going to be dying early, and there goes 1/3 of your firepower.

Using the same number of X-Wings you did, above, maybe try...

Garven + R2 Astromech
Dutch Vander + R5-K6 + Ion cannon
Rookie pilot + R2 Astromech
Rookie pilot

The Y-Wing ions what it can, but it is mostly there to hand out free target locks. On good rolls, it'll lock the same ship twice in a turn (not needing an action to do so on a later turn), and thus hand out two target locks to nearby friendlies. Obviously, Garven is a good choice for one of those free locks, as it lets him take 'focus' as an action - which he gets to pass on to another wingman when using it.

Those two will then (likely) be the enemy's primary initial targets, given their boosting abilities, which means you can be a bit more aggressive with the rest of your squadron...and that means two 'attack-3' fighters with this formation!
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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XanderF wrote:
Maybe give Biggs another shield, or stealth device, or something to extend his life. Maybe R2 Astromechs all around.

I really like putting R2-D2 on Biggs with a Shield Upgrade. Seems to give him lots of life.

-shnar
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Xander Fulton
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shnar wrote:
XanderF wrote:
Maybe give Biggs another shield, or stealth device, or something to extend his life. Maybe R2 Astromechs all around.

I really like putting R2-D2 on Biggs with a Shield Upgrade. Seems to give him lots of life.

-shnar


Against TIE Fighters, sure. Against bombers, which could OHK him on their own (cluster missiles), and when even just 'paired' almost certainly take him out in one turn?

Biggs with a shield...maybe. That might help him survive to a second turn of fire. I can't see adding R2-D2 to him in the current meta being enough to get him to survive to even a third turn of taking fire, which makes the very HIGH cost on him...iffy.
 
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Cat O\'Mighty
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Stealth works best when backed up with Focus. R2F2 requires an action. Best just to stick to the droid and not bother with Stealth.

Yeah, 3 ship builds are vulnerable facing an ordinance barrage.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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I think the approach and PS is key when against bombers. Exploit low PS (low PS has a hard time locking on ships who move after) and if you can kill a bomber (or even better, Jonus) with armaments still on it, you are wasting their points. Also setting up directly in front of bombers and flying straight for them is suicide.

Honestly, the list in the OP has a poor choice of armament, All you would have to do is fly fast to get in range 1 right away, but if that list had cluster missiles it would be different.

Also, Im not so sure Biggs is the right answer vs Bombers, not only will his HP go down fast to projectiles. The bombers may have assault missiles...
 
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Iain Hamp
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Deadwolf wrote:
I think the approach and PS is key when against bombers. Exploit low PS (low PS has a hard time locking on ships who move after) and if you can kill a bomber (or even better, Jonus) with armaments still on it, you are wasting their points. Also setting up directly in front of bombers and flying straight for them is suicide.

Honestly, the list in the OP has a poor choice of armament, All you would have to do is fly fast to get in range 1 right away, but if that list had cluster missiles it would be different.

Also, Im not so sure Biggs is the right answer vs Bombers, not only will his HP go down fast to projectiles. The bombers may have assault missiles...


As a regular TIE Bomber player, I disagree - please, by all means bring Biggs into your squad. devil
 
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Paul H
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The key to beating bombers is out maneuvering them. They are slow and cumbersome when compared to X-Wings.

I flew a similar bomber build and struggled with getting off the ordinance when the X's were flying circles around me. Granted, I am admittedly horrible at maneuvering...

I would take a couple points off Biggs and possibly consider picking up another X.
 
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Joseph Woodworth
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Cat_O wrote:
Stealth works best when backed up with Focus. R2F2 requires an action. Best just to stick to the droid and not bother with Stealth.

Yeah, 3 ship builds are vulnerable facing an ordinance barrage.


Although, r2f2 works just like stealth - best with focus. I'd actually say to go with stealth and r2f2 because there's extra padding, or just stealth so you can focus... Though if you brought a way to get extra focus along...
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Jesse G
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Had a similar loadout for bombers...
perhaps try with some b wings.

(35)Blue squad - FCS[2]-HLC[7]-engine upgrade[4]
(35)Blue squad - FCS[2]-HLC[7]-engine upgrade[4]
(30)HWK-290 kyle katarn - Marksmanship[3]-Moldy crow[3]-Recon Specialist[3]

Was able to make some HUGE gains with this.... Constant focus effects were great.
 
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Davyd A
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I'd say - as many others have - the biggest thing you need to do is get more ships on the table. 3 Aces don't defend much better than 3 Rookies, after all, and more firepower is better.

Heck, 4 Rookies with Shield Upgrades might just let you suck up the missile barrage. Or 4 Rookies with Engine Upgrades might be able to race in and around. A-Wings will be the same pain for missiles to hit as TIEs are. But my go-to 4 ship list is Wedge, Biggs, and 2 rookies (upgrades vary). Biggs buys Wedge some extra life while the rookies form a second manoeuvre unit of their own. Giving Wedge Expert Handling would probably really annoy a bomber list, since he'd be moving last and could shed all those TLs...
 
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Mario Nuñez Jimenez
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what about
biggs
wedge + swarm tactics
red squadron
rookie

You can shot with two skill 9 pilots, then a 5 the 4, so you probably kill one of those bombers before he delivers the payload.
 
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Chris Brown
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Orange_Chef wrote:
Had a similar loadout for bombers...
perhaps try with some b wings.

(35)Blue squad - FCS[2]-HLC[7]-engine upgrade[4]
(35)Blue squad - FCS[2]-HLC[7]-engine upgrade[4]
(30)HWK-290 kyle katarn - Marksmanship[3]-Moldy crow[3]-Recon Specialist[3]

Was able to make some HUGE gains with this.... Constant focus effects were great.


Why in god's name would you put Marksmanship on Kyle when he doesn't have a turret? Only 1 attack die...Marksmanship is just worthless at that point.
 
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Chris Brown
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There is no reason to have two A's at the beginning of aardvark. I simply won't do it.
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XanderF wrote:
What was your list? Just 3 X-Wings seems a bit...vulnerable...to most lists, really.


Did you miss the part where a Biggs, Luke, Wedge list came in 2nd at Gencon?
 
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Chris Brown
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xmattuk wrote:

Captain Jonus (22) + Proton (4)
Scimitar (16) + Proton (4) + Concussion (4)
Scimitar (16) + Proton (4) + Concussion (4)
Academy Pilot (12)
Academy Pilot (12)


I would like to try my named TIE list against this.

Vader
-Squad Leader
Howlrunner
Backstabber
Mauler Mithel
Alpha Squad Pilot

For a strategy I would start straight across from them on one edge of the board if possible making them think I'm dumb enough to go right at them. Then turn and go for full speed across the board. Force them to make turns and try to keep in formation. Also, asteroid placement will be huge. Either force them into the asteroids or make them take the long way around and you can get in behind them. Then focus fire! When you get to a point you are attacking, go in as fast as possible. Hopefully the low pilot skill scimitars wont be in range to get target locks then you can shoot in and get range for hits. Then use action denial and keep at range 1 to remove as much of the missile threat as possible. If you can keep that up then all three bombers are useless. Would love to try this.
 
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Lando
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Rraahk wrote:
The key to beating bombers is out maneuvering them. They are slow and cumbersome when compared to X-Wings.

I flew a similar bomber build and struggled with getting off the ordinance when the X's were flying circles around me. Granted, I am admittedly horrible at maneuvering...

I would take a couple points off Biggs and possibly consider picking up another X.


This is not my experience. Their dial is really good for what you get.



Looking at them side by side, their dials are almost exactly the same except for the k-turn, 2 speed turns, and the speed 1/2 green maneuvers. Their biggest strength is having 6 hull, 2 evade, and lots of hurt. Usually by the time their ordinance is expended, they have killed one or two ships and wounded a third.

Against my friends 4 bomber list, I have yet to win despite trying several different lists against it. Better PS skill, crits, ion cannons, torpedoes, B-Wings with HLC's. They just have so many hit points that devoting an entire lists worth of firepower to a single target *might* kill one of their ships, but all of their firepower directed at one ship will definitely kill one of yours. In the war of attrition, bombers win.
 
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Iain Hamp
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xmattuk wrote:
OK, so a couple of days back, I got destroyed by a TIE squad that was roughly as follows;

Captain Jonus (22) + Proton (4)
Scimitar (16) + Proton (4) + Concussion (4)
Scimitar (16) + Proton (4) + Concussion (4)
Academy Pilot (12)
Academy Pilot (12)

that may not be quite right, but it was something along those lines.


I found the squad far too powerful, it destroyed my 3 Xs easily, and I'm not sure I even managed to finish one of his ships off (6 hull on a Bomber for 16 or 18 points seems too strong to me).
OK, so I wasn't rolling great, but the missiles where you can re-roll two dice with Jonus, and then change either a blank or a focus, you're often getting 3 hits.

My question is, how should I have played against this squad? And what Rebel squad do you think would give it a run for it's money?

I'm worried that all the answers are going to say B-Wing(s) + .....

Is the game quickly developing into "you need to buy the latest releases just to keep up"? That's what it felt like a little bit.


Out of curiosity, how were the two Academy Pilots used? Were they flown in formation with the bombers, in their own separate unit to flank with, flying ahead to disrupt movement so the bombers could line their shots up, etc.?
 
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Cat O\'Mighty
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That red 2 on the bomber means it's not going to have an easy time coming around asteroids and getting a focused/target-locked attack. That's a big difference.

A bomber flight likes an alpha strike where they come in firing all tubes and backed up by Jonus. Tidy formations help them to achieve that.

Flying around them to get your first attacks from the flank messes up their tidy formation. And give you your 2nd attack while they're going red to try to cope.

And yes, concentrate your fire on 1 ship until it's dead. Jonus. Ideally killing him before the PS2 Scimitars can launch.

While flying rings around Dupes, don't be afraid to cut across an asteroid to get out of their way and add more unpredictablity to your approach. 1 attack die from a rock is much better odds than getting caught in front of their tubes.
 
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Lando
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Cat_O wrote:
That red 2 on the bomber means it's not going to have an easy time coming around asteroids and getting a focused/target-locked attack. That's a big difference.

A bomber flight likes an alpha strike where they come in firing all tubes and backed up by Jonus. Tidy formations help them to achieve that.

Flying around them to get your first attacks from the flank messes up their tidy formation. And give you your 2nd attack while they're going red to try to cope.

And yes, concentrate your fire on 1 ship until it's dead. Jonus. Ideally killing him before the PS2 Scimitars can launch.

While flying rings around Dupes, don't be afraid to cut across an asteroid to get out of their way and add more unpredictablity to your approach. 1 attack die from a rock is much better odds than getting caught in front of their tubes.


I am not some new player that is still trying to figure out how to turn two ships together without running into something. The problem with your approach is that instead of doing what you are talking about and hitting on the flank and other stuff, they just focus on one ship and blow it to kingdom come anyways. Biggs is a big anti-bomber thing if you can guess what is going to happen first turn and avoid getting locks from the PS 2/4 bombers without Jonus helping out, but he is only one ship.

The 2/3 turn maneuver also only displaces the bombers a total of one base to either side. Not a big deal. Most people set up asteroids as far apart from each other just so they don't have to deal with a giant asteroid cluster. I purposely choose to place all my asteroids as close together as possible and dictate that the fight is going to happen inside of the asteroid cluster and I still can't get the bombers before the end.

If you take high PS pilots to try and get around their low pilot skill, you have 3 rebel ships. If you take low PS pilots to get around having only 3 ships, you either have low damage output (y-wings, y-wings with ioon cannons, GPS with PTL, or rookie X-Wings) or you get target locked from 2 or 3 of the bombers (Jonus with squad, PS4 bomber locking onto the PS2 guys).

One final list I want to try is wedge, biggs, red, red. It is a relatively high PS list, gets around the 3 ship liability, has high damage output, and has biggs to deflect that crucial first turn of ordinance drop.

Y-Wings with ion cannons dictate where the bombers will go and using them has netted me the best game so far against bombers, but even then he still had 2 bombers left on the field.

Bombers are OP for their point cost and stacking abilities. I thought X-Wings were OP but the X-Wing list would probably get blown away if Biggs died first turn. The bombers only need to eliminate one enemy ship per turn and they are winning.
 
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Xander Fulton
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killerardvark wrote:
XanderF wrote:
What was your list? Just 3 X-Wings seems a bit...vulnerable...to most lists, really.


Did you miss the part where a Biggs, Luke, Wedge list came in 2nd at Gencon?


Nearly any list can do well, if it has a good player behind it who is VERY familiar with it, and has a plan for dealing with whatever he comes up against (and doesn't end up matched against anything he is unusually weak against, as well as not having the dice crap out on him).

I still wouldn't usually take a 3-X list.
 
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nimdabew wrote:
The problem with your approach is that instead of doing what you are talking about and hitting on the flank and other stuff, they just focus on one ship and blow it to kingdom come anyways.


So far it's been working pretty well for me, but I'm also still practicing with and against the new ships to develop skills for handling them. And situations will always be different based on the players involved.

I also make sure that the 3 asteroids I place interact with the other 3 to make the field as crowded as possible and especially to block open lanes on as many angles of approach as possible. That's also been working well for quite awhile since I like taking the fight into the asteroids.
 
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