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Subject: Crop Substitution: Slash and Burn - requires COIN control? rss

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Matt McCourty
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Just finished the tutorial and have an immediate question. The next card is Crop Substitution which allows Govt to "free eradicate in any 1 province with Govt cubes. Remove all warlord pieces there."

However the eradicate action states COIN control is required.

Does that prerequisite still apply here? Or can government player wipe all of this province in one event?



Head says card overrides rule... Heart says "seems overpowered"
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Adam Parker
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Perfect example of what I've come up against with cards.

I would agree that it should be a case of the card overriding rules. Just do it.

But - and there's no explanation anywhere - I once played it as meaning you can execute an Eradication activity without it needing to be tied to a Train, Patrol, or Assault. All other Eradication rules apply except as amended in the card.

On reflection I would now read the card literally and just do what it says i.e.

- Immediately find 1 province with Govt cubes.
- Remove all Warlord pieces there - not just one Base.
- Boost Aid by +3 and Patronage +1.
- Shift the Province 1 level toward Opposition if possible.
- If Pashtun place a Taliban Guerrilla.

I would do the last 3 steps because the card uses the term "Eradicate".

Having card histories in the playbook is a nice touch. But having card explanations or elaborations would have been much better in this game.
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Mike Bertucelli
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You carry out what the card says literally.5.1.1 has your answer.




5.1 Executing Events
When a Faction executes an Event, it carries out the Event text
literally (sometimes involving actions or decisions by other Factions).
Unless otherwise specified, the executing Faction makes all
selections involved in implementing the text, such as which pieces
are affected. Some Events with lasting effects have markers as aids
to play.
5.1.1 Where Event text contradicts rules, the Event takes precedence.
However:
• Events never place pieces that are not available (1.4.1); they
remove rather than replace if the replacement is not available.
• Events may not violate stacking (1.4.2). They may not place
non-Taliban forces in Pakistan. “Replace” never affects Taliban
in Pakistan.
• Events may not raise Aid or Resources beyond 75 or Patronage
beyond 40 (1.8).
• Events never allow a Faction to execute a type of Operation or
Special Activity available only to other Factions (3.0, 4.0).
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Adam Parker
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I agree with you Mike but how would you execute this one? i.e. Would you do as I suggested at the end of my last post step-wise?

Cheers,
Adam.
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Joel Tamburo
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I think 5.1.1 controls here. You execute the Event and where it contradicts the rules the Event supercedes. So in this case the Eradicate action is being permitted to occur even if there is no COIN control so long as government cubes are present. Also you remove all Warlord pieces.

So, you remove all Warlord pieces and also execute in that space all the component steps of Eradicate.
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chris leko
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The key here is the word any. Whenever that appears in an event it overrides any other prerequisites for the op.
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Mike Bertucelli
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You don't need control in this case.
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Matt McCourty
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Thanks all. As a gamer I am trained that the cards supercede the rules, but wiping 2 bases and loads of guerrillas seemed almost game breaking.

Having slept on it and reflected on the tutorial, it seems that the flow of guerrillas on and off the board is much higher/more frequent than I expected - full ops can flood the board - so perhaps this isn't such an overpowered event.

It is a shame that the cards description doesn't expand on the card text slightly (or even just say it in a different way) although I appreciate that can be hard.

Thanks all
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Nathan Lee
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And savvy warlord won't concentrate forces knowing that this card is in the deck.
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Volko Ruhnke
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Bravo for supplying the handy photo with the rules question!!

Thanks all for answering.

As for second-guessing the writing: I detest wordy cards.

As noted, 5.1.1 plus "any" covers it here. Event text trumps rules, as in most games.

It would be feckless and wanton for me to add text to cards in the attempt to predict and counter each future player's potential opinion of what an event should or should not do.

The hang up in this was not rules writing but a suspicion that the event is over-powered. I do not believe that it is. Warlords loss of 2 Bases and some Guerrillas is highly unlikely to break them.

Regards, Volko
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Volko Ruhnke
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Silentz wrote:
Thanks all. As a gamer I am trained that the cards supercede the rules, but wiping 2 bases and loads of guerrillas seemed almost game breaking.

Having slept on it and reflected on the tutorial, it seems that the flow of guerrillas on and off the board is much higher/more frequent than I expected - full ops can flood the board - so perhaps this isn't such an overpowered event.

Yes, I expect that you will find this to the case. Warlord Bases are particularly easy to replace, via Cultivate. vfr
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chris leko
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Volko wrote:
Silentz wrote:
Thanks all. As a gamer I am trained that the cards supercede the rules, but wiping 2 bases and loads of guerrillas seemed almost game breaking.

Having slept on it and reflected on the tutorial, it seems that the flow of guerrillas on and off the board is much higher/more frequent than I expected - full ops can flood the board - so perhaps this isn't such an overpowered event.

Yes, I expect that you will find this to the case. Warlord Bases are particularly easy to replace, via Cultivate. vfr


In all honesty, if the Warlords play any similarity to the Cartels in AA, I came back from having all of my bases and troops destroyed right before the second prop card to win. Making the decision to take out one area of warlords when they shouldn't be concentrating anyway (like the cartels, they should slink around the map) and taking away your ability to do a full op + special activity can be tough (though taking the event over a limop could be good too).

It could also have been that it seemed over powered in that particular event (board state). The best part about the game is how complex the decision making can be! Feels very euro to me.
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Volko Ruhnke
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And I'm sure you mean that as a compliment!
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chris leko
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Volko wrote:
And I'm sure you mean that as a compliment!


A very big one! Though I love wargames, I also love Euros.. and the COIN stuff is such a good blending of what I love so much about them!
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