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Teramyyd: Earthsphere» Forums » General

Subject: Any news? rss

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Kevin Brown
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So it's pretty quiet in here.
Nothing noteworthy on the KS comments. KS updates are pretty much limited to pictures of models and a bit of vague beta stuff. Facebook page is useless.
So, hi. How are you? You may not remember me, but I backed your game. Just wondering how it's going. Gameplay shaping up all right? Still on schedule to ship eventually? That's super. I love these talks that we have!
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I'm a little concerned about this game. At the moment I just hope the game is produced.

From reading all the updates about how poorly organising a handful of Beta copies was, I have no idea how they will manage to actually produce the entire game.

Everything is taking so much longer than it actually should. I can't believe that 5 months later Beta testing is still live.
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Tyrone ..................
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That's because the rules are a mess, in my opinion, and it's going to take forever for everything to get addressed and smoothed out.
 
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I had posted here in other threads my reservations about backing a game without a clear rule set. The vocal few felt I was overreacting. It seemed to me that they couldn't figure out a good combat system and instead of fixing it, they just put in more mini's.

I mean, why start a kickstarter if you still don't have the rules finished? What was the rush?

Jorune
 
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Silver Bowen
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Jorune wrote:
I had posted here in other threads my reservations about backing a game without a clear rule set. The vocal few felt I was overreacting. It seemed to me that they couldn't figure out a good combat system and instead of fixing it, they just put in more mini's.

Jorune


Hopefully everyone has learned by now that no rules should equal no sale.
 
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Thomas King
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Jorune wrote:
I had posted here in other threads my reservations about backing a game without a clear rule set. The vocal few felt I was overreacting. It seemed to me that they couldn't figure out a good combat system and instead of fixing it, they just put in more mini's.

I mean, why start a kickstarter if you still don't have the rules finished? What was the rush?

Jorune
Shoddy rules and poor band-aiding of bad rules was why I could not bring myself to support it. And sadly, this long silence isn't surprising.
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Aaron Silverman
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Look at it on the bright side. . .of all the "fancy minis; messy rules" Kickstarter projects, this was (IIRC) the least expensive!


 
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Aaron Silverman
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Montag451 wrote:
Jorune wrote:
I had posted here in other threads my reservations about backing a game without a clear rule set. The vocal few felt I was overreacting. It seemed to me that they couldn't figure out a good combat system and instead of fixing it, they just put in more mini's.

I mean, why start a kickstarter if you still don't have the rules finished? What was the rush?

Jorune
Shoddy rules and poor band-aiding of bad rules was why I could not bring myself to support it. And sadly, this long silence isn't surprising.


It was a close call for me, but they seemed honestly interested in making the game work (plus I was on a Kickstarter binge at the time), so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. To be honest, I find the extended beta period encouraging. The money is long since spent; I'd rather wait until the game is respectably functional.
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Thomas King
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DJ Kuul A wrote:
Montag451 wrote:
Jorune wrote:
I had posted here in other threads my reservations about backing a game without a clear rule set. The vocal few felt I was overreacting. It seemed to me that they couldn't figure out a good combat system and instead of fixing it, they just put in more mini's.

I mean, why start a kickstarter if you still don't have the rules finished? What was the rush?

Jorune
Shoddy rules and poor band-aiding of bad rules was why I could not bring myself to support it. And sadly, this long silence isn't surprising.


It was a close call for me, but they seemed honestly interested in making the game work (plus I was on a Kickstarter binge at the time), so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. To be honest, I find the extended beta period encouraging. The money is long since spent; I'd rather wait until the game is respectably functional.
to me they seemed more interested in making neat minis than making a great game
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DJ Kuul A wrote:
Montag451 wrote:
Jorune wrote:
I had posted here in other threads my reservations about backing a game without a clear rule set. The vocal few felt I was overreacting. It seemed to me that they couldn't figure out a good combat system and instead of fixing it, they just put in more mini's.

I mean, why start a kickstarter if you still don't have the rules finished? What was the rush?

Jorune
Shoddy rules and poor band-aiding of bad rules was why I could not bring myself to support it. And sadly, this long silence isn't surprising.


It was a close call for me, but they seemed honestly interested in making the game work (plus I was on a Kickstarter binge at the time), so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. To be honest, I find the extended beta period encouraging. The money is long since spent; I'd rather wait until the game is respectably functional.


but the longer it goes on, the longer the money could dry up. A September update mentioned that they were still ironing out the rules and because of this, the printing of the cards is being held up. Makes sense. But than they said they are waiting to do the art for the cards...wait, what? Art can take a long time and eat up money. Why wait.

Sept 19, Thor

And also, we will keep Beta open as long as we can, because we think it has been extremely valuable. That said, there will necessarily be an interval between the end of beta and the start of final printed production. We can't finalize the the cards or chits until the rules are solid, and the cards, chits, and rules will all require the (further) creation of many art assets. And then once those are all locked down and prepped, then everything needs to be sent off to the printer. And the printers we have talked to have all said anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks to go from designs received to product finished.
Yeah, mid-December is looking *very* optimistic now.



Jorune
 
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Aaron Silverman
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Montag451 wrote:
DJ Kuul A wrote:
Montag451 wrote:
Jorune wrote:
I had posted here in other threads my reservations about backing a game without a clear rule set. The vocal few felt I was overreacting. It seemed to me that they couldn't figure out a good combat system and instead of fixing it, they just put in more mini's.

I mean, why start a kickstarter if you still don't have the rules finished? What was the rush?

Jorune
Shoddy rules and poor band-aiding of bad rules was why I could not bring myself to support it. And sadly, this long silence isn't surprising.


It was a close call for me, but they seemed honestly interested in making the game work (plus I was on a Kickstarter binge at the time), so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. To be honest, I find the extended beta period encouraging. The money is long since spent; I'd rather wait until the game is respectably functional.
to me they seemed more interested in making neat minis than making a great game


It certainly started out that way.
 
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Kevin Brown
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Jorune wrote:
DJ Kuul A wrote:
Montag451 wrote:
Jorune wrote:
I had posted here in other threads my reservations about backing a game without a clear rule set. The vocal few felt I was overreacting. It seemed to me that they couldn't figure out a good combat system and instead of fixing it, they just put in more mini's.

I mean, why start a kickstarter if you still don't have the rules finished? What was the rush?

Jorune
Shoddy rules and poor band-aiding of bad rules was why I could not bring myself to support it. And sadly, this long silence isn't surprising.


It was a close call for me, but they seemed honestly interested in making the game work (plus I was on a Kickstarter binge at the time), so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. To be honest, I find the extended beta period encouraging. The money is long since spent; I'd rather wait until the game is respectably functional.


but the longer it goes on, the longer the money could dry up. A September update mentioned that they were still ironing out the rules and because of this, the printing of the cards is being held up. Makes sense. But than they said they are waiting to do the art for the cards...wait, what? Art can take a long time and eat up money. Why wait.



Jorune

By waiting on the art I hope they just mean waiting on the final layout and design for the cards. Revising the rules to the game will most likely necessitate a change in verbiage on the cards. Hopefully the actual artwork is in place.
As a backer, the first part of your post is my concern. OOH I want the beta to go as long as it needs to in order to make a good game. OTOH I'm concerned about beta taking too many resources and running the financial well dry.
 
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Kevin Brown
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...and that the most recent comment on the KS page is a request for info on how the beta is going has been withering on the vine for 6 days inspires confidence...

Edit to add shake
 
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Thomas King
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Lurkfish wrote:
...and that the most recent comment on the KS page is a request for info on how the beta is going has been withering on the vine for 6 days inspires confidence...

My only guess is either beta testing is requiring way more work than they expected or were prepared for, or tester feedback meant huge changes to the game (maybe enough to rethink some of the cards and mechanics themselves which would explain the delay on the art; don't want to put in for art for cards that might not actually be in the game). Just my thoughts given the state of things, anyway. Needless to say, it is worrying, and I didn't even invest in the KS.
 
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Posted yesterday-
" Creator IO Worlds 1 day ago

@ e-j: Right now there's a whole bunch of stuff going on here at IOW. We're really close to having the final digital files of all 20 minis done. (That's 15 Airships, the White Sails ship, the Spawn of the Kobolos, the Kobolos, Aeriopolis, and the Quest Markers.) We've gotten most of them prepped for printing (which involves digitally breaking the minis apart into smaller pieces that will cast properly), and we've ordered two high-quality copies of the Verdant Wing at 25mm and 30mm scale to figure out which will be the proper size for all the minis. The one we pick will be shipped off the to casting house so that we can get a price estimate for all the casting. We still have a few bids outstanding, but unless something remarkable is offered, it looks like we are going to have the game and the minis manufactured separately, then combined at shipping time.
As far as the rules go, that was on the back-burner while we've gotten all the minis in motion, but it is now back on the front-burner. Robert and I are taking all the rules for hands and encounters and getting back to first principles. Half of what we are doing is detailed in the Beta Forum in the thread "[Quasi-Official] The Balance Project: Draw Decks 2.0; Revised Cards; Revised Decks ". The other half is taking all the cards in the deck, defining their functions, and rewriting almost every card to make them useful, consistent, and interesting. Step one in this process is getting all 22 Captains and 15 (16 including Aeriopolis) Airships assigned their proper attributes so that we can make the 22 Captains' Tactics Cards and he 16 Airships' Tactics Cards both balanced and useful. Once we have the Captain, Airship, and Tactics Cards nailed down, we can take steps to make the rest of the cards and re-vamp the Terror Track, which has just a few balance issues. And concurrent to all of these changes, the Rulebook is being revised as well, and the Quest Book can finally have Quests written that are organic to the way the game is played.
I apologize that this is taking longer than anticipated, but I believe the game will be better for it.
Thor
IOworlds"
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Thomas King
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Yup, huge re-writes to the rules and overhaul of the cards. Good thing they gave priority to those minis though, just wouldn't be a good game without great minis, right? shake
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Montag451 wrote:
Yup, huge re-writes to the rules and overhaul of the cards. Good thing they gave priority to those minis though, just wouldn't be a good game without great minis, right? shake


Ha! You are particularly vocal about a game you have no stake in. All I hear is bitch, bitch... moan, moan... You got out long ago, is this all you have to do all day? Bag on a game you didn't care enough to back and laugh when you think it is failing?

Games are what YOU make of it. I bought in because I wanted the minis (if you think this is a waste, then you chose correctly to not back the project. supporting projects based on minis alone is a huge part of KS campaigns and I fully support it as its the one thing I don't have talent and time to create: great game bits). If they end up with a good game, cool! If not, cool! I am not above making up my own rules or house ruling things to fit what I want to get out of a game. If you can't do that, then you might want to stay away from Kickstarter.

The fact that they are still working on ironing out the final rules and listening (and receiving) good playtest feedback is a positive in my estimation. I'm not a beta player but I have confidence in the dev team to make a solid game and produce it when it is done. If that is later next year, so be it.
 
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Thomas King
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space monkey mafia wrote:
Montag451 wrote:
Yup, huge re-writes to the rules and overhaul of the cards. Good thing they gave priority to those minis though, just wouldn't be a good game without great minis, right? shake


Ha! You are particularly vocal about a game you have no stake in. All I hear is bitch, bitch... moan, moan... You got out long ago, is this all you have to do all day? Bag on a game you didn't care enough to back and laugh when you think it is failing?

Games are what YOU make of it. I bought in because I wanted the minis (if you think this is a waste, then you chose correctly to not back the project. supporting projects based on minis alone is a huge part of KS campaigns and I fully support it as its the one thing I don't have talent and time to create: great game bits). If they end up with a good game, cool! If not, cool! I am not above making up my own rules or house ruling things to fit what I want to get out of a game. If you can't do that, then you might want to stay away from Kickstarter.

The fact that they are still working on ironing out the final rules and listening (and receiving) good playtest feedback is a positive in my estimation. I'm not a beta player but I have confidence in the dev team to make a solid game and produce it when it is done. If that is later next year, so be it.
You had to bring up a near month old post just to say that?

And I may not have a monetary stake in the game, that doesn't mean I have no interest in it and just want to see it crash and burn. It sounded like a really cool game, and could still be. Just because I didn't put money into the kickstarter doesn't mean I wouldn't be allowed to buy it once it's released. But that's if it's a good game. After all, the kickstarter was for a board game, not a miniatures set.
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Aaron Silverman
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I do have a stake in this game, and I will repeat Thomas' comment that this project is a board game, not a set of miniatures. There are other Kickstarters for just miniatures if that's what one wants.

I for one am both nervous and optimistic about the extended beta period -- nervous that they needed it, but optimistic that they're taking it seriously.

A game is "what you make of it" if you're the designer. If I want to make a game, I'll design one. I'm not interested in paying for nice components that aren't put to good use.
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Kevin Brown
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DJ Kuul A wrote:
I do have a stake in this game, and I will repeat Thomas' comment that this project is a board game, not a set of miniatures. There are other Kickstarters for just miniatures if that's what one wants.

I for one am both nervous and optimistic about the extended beta period -- nervous that they needed it, but optimistic that they're taking it seriously.

A game is "what you make of it" if you're the designer. If I want to make a game, I'll design one. I'm not interested in paying for nice components that aren't put to good use.


Aye. I have a financial stake in this as well, hence starting the thread. There is a bit of told-you-so from non backers in this thread, but the fact that they didn't back does not necessarily invalidate what they say.
Roughly 10% of backers are in the beta. That leaves the majority of the backers outside looking in. But there's nothing to look in at.
Updates on pretty minis.
Updates for beta testers.
Nothing at all about how the game is progressing. No mentions of rule changes, gameplay, nothing. But there are some mini pictures.
The lack of communication is frustrating. I don't know as it is worrisome yet, but it is annoying as hell.
Personally I am way past having faith in IOWorlds making a good game. I'm now firmly entrenched in hoping they make a good game. More silence will move me into the hoping they make a game at all camp.
 
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Aaron Silverman
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Didn't they just post an official update a day or two ago? No real details, but at least something of an acknowledgement of progress.

If we get bored waiting, we can always start another thread on the (lack of ) ethics of asking people to pay to be beta testers. . .
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Thomas King
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Lurkfish wrote:
DJ Kuul A wrote:
I do have a stake in this game, and I will repeat Thomas' comment that this project is a board game, not a set of miniatures. There are other Kickstarters for just miniatures if that's what one wants.

I for one am both nervous and optimistic about the extended beta period -- nervous that they needed it, but optimistic that they're taking it seriously.

A game is "what you make of it" if you're the designer. If I want to make a game, I'll design one. I'm not interested in paying for nice components that aren't put to good use.


Aye. I have a financial stake in this as well, hence starting the thread. There is a bit of told-you-so from non backers in this thread, but the fact that they didn't back does not necessarily invalidate what they say.
Roughly 10% of backers are in the beta. That leaves the majority of the backers outside looking in. But there's nothing to look in at.
Updates on pretty minis.
Updates for beta testers.
Nothing at all about how the game is progressing. No mentions of rule changes, gameplay, nothing. But there are some mini pictures.
The lack of communication is frustrating. I don't know as it is worrisome yet, but it is annoying as hell.
Personally I am way past having faith in IOWorlds making a good game. I'm now firmly entrenched in hoping they make a good game. More silence will move me into the hoping they make a game at all camp.
Speaking for myself, I didn't intend for my posts to come across as "I told you so", but there was certainly a lot of disappointment from me. I did have some criticisms during the campaign, and did not back it because I felt the idea, while cool, was pretty undercooked. It's not the sort of thing I want to be right about; I'd much rather feel bad for missing out on the kickstarter because the game turned out to be good than feel some sort of validation because the game is bad or never gets released.

But I still have interest in the game, and I want it to be good. When I said, "it is worrying, and I didn't even invest in the KS", I mean that it's a shame that for some one like me who did not back the project, I know about as much of what's going on as those who did back the project. I should be the one asking about updates, not the backers. It would be interesting to hear from a beta tester to find out if they know any more than the rest of us.
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Hi, all. This is Thor from IOWorlds.

Have we been spending a lot of time on the minis, and not enough time on the rules lately? I don't dispute that. A large part of that is production scheduling. Minis will be taking up a huge amount of the money we raised, and are our biggest line item in the budget, edging out postage. Since we are going to spend a lot of money getting this minis made, we are taking extra care right now to get them done right. The bulk of the computer modeling is now done, and we're starting to get some more physical prototypes done, which are very encouraging. When we finally get these to the mini producer, there will be a large turnaround time...greater than the turnaround time for the printed materials, dice, and coins. So we really wanted to get the minis into the pipe and out of our hands as early as possible so that we could more fully turn all our attentions to the revisions of the cards and rules.

We are currently going through all the cards, category by category, with a fine tooth comb. We're taking out all the things that were not working well. We've got the revised Tactic and Spell Cards up on the Backer Download page at ioworlds.com, along with the rule changes the revised cards are coupled with. The Ally and the Tech cards are coming next, followed by Artifact and Treasure, then Foe and Voyage cards. With each set, I am updating the Rules addenda, which will be integrated into a major re-write of the Rules after all the cards are re-issured. That will be followed by a proper fleshing out of the Quest Book. Following that will be a short (hopefully final) handful of days of Beta Testing to catch the last few bugs, and then we will be able to get everything to production.

And to be fair, the $35 extra for Beta wasn't for the privilege of being a Beta Tester, but for the production of the cards, chips, and ship mats, the cost of the dice and coins, and the high expense of shipping a 3-pound, 39"-long poster tube anywhere in the world. It turns out that full-color production of a short card run is pretty darn expensive per unit, and that we had a higher proportion of international beta testers than we were anticipating when we introduced the option. (We were expecting 10 total beta testers, and we wound up with 200.) So yeah, we lost money on the physical beta, and from now on, we're going digital only, like every other sane and experienced small game company out there.

In any event, we are still working on it, diligently, even if you don't hear from us as often as you should. Obviously, we are not going to be shipping anyone their game in October 2013 as we had hoped, but we're doing everything we can to get the game fun to play and great to look at and produced as quickly as feasible.
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Aaron Silverman
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Thanks for the update! Take your time -- better to put up with complaining now and get a positive response to the product later.
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Thanks for the update!
 
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