Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
64 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: Does the Corporation EVER win this? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Alejandro G.
United States
Hurst
Texas
flag msg tools
Sometimes you have to roll the hard six.
badge
I'm getting my men...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Icedanno wrote:
Been playing for several weeks now, have all the packs.

I play corp side. In all that time, corporation has never won. A couple times I was able to advance 2 or 3 agendas, but several games the runner won with the corp having no agendas at all.

Runner turn 1: play several cards
Runner turn 2: generate income, (usually 4 to 12)
Runner turn 3: make a run bypassing all ice.
Rinse and repeat.

Corporation Turn 1: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 2: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 3: spend all coins to rez a piece of ice... which the runner breaks easily.

The runner has so many income generators that it literally only takes him a couple turns to generate a huge stack of chips, sometimes just one.

The corporation has almost no income generators, and what few they have are assets, which the runner burns down immediately. Beanstock and hedgefund just don't stack up to the massive income the runner puts out.

All games are the same, it seems. The runner spends a turn or two gathering a fortune, then easily bypasses all ice which the credits.

So.. my question is: Does the corporation EVER win this? If so how?
It must be a really slow runner that gets beat by the corp.


You're absolutely right... it's so very tough for the corporation.

Beanstalk Royalties
Hedge Fund
Commercialization
Successful Demonstration
Celebrity Gift

Pad Campaign
Eve Campaign
Adonis Campaign
Marked Accounts
Private Accounts
Melange Mining Corp.

ICE that generates money:

Pop Up Window
Caduceus
Shadow

Agendas that generate money:

Gila Hands Arcology
Government Contracts
Corporate War

That's just off the top of my head... what else did I miss?

EDIT:
Green Level Clearance
Geothermal Fracking

Thanks Hoobajoo.
19 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Drake Villareal
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Typically, if corp is NEVER winning, you might be playing wrong. A LOT of people do.

little rules mistakes can make it a totally different game
17 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Presley
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
xpiredsodapop wrote:
Icedanno wrote:
Been playing for several weeks now, have all the packs.

I play corp side. In all that time, corporation has never won. A couple times I was able to advance 2 or 3 agendas, but several games the runner won with the corp having no agendas at all.

Runner turn 1: play several cards
Runner turn 2: generate income, (usually 4 to 12)
Runner turn 3: make a run bypassing all ice.
Rinse and repeat.

Corporation Turn 1: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 2: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 3: spend all coins to rez a piece of ice... which the runner breaks easily.

The runner has so many income generators that it literally only takes him a couple turns to generate a huge stack of chips, sometimes just one.

The corporation has almost no income generators, and what few they have are assets, which the runner burns down immediately. Beanstock and hedgefund just don't stack up to the massive income the runner puts out.

All games are the same, it seems. The runner spends a turn or two gathering a fortune, then easily bypasses all ice which the credits.

So.. my question is: Does the corporation EVER win this? If so how?
It must be a really slow runner that gets beat by the corp.


You're absolutely right... it's so very tough for the corporation.

Beanstalk Royalties
Hedge Fund
Commercialization
Successful Demonstration
Celebrity Gift

Pad Campaign
Eve Campaign
Adonis Campaign
Marked Accounts
Private Accounts
Melange Mining Corp.

ICE that generates money:

Pop Up Window
Caduceus
Shadow

Agendas that generate money:

Gila Hands Arcology
Government Contracts
Corporate War

That's just off the top of my head... what else did I miss?


You forgot Green Level Clearance and Geothermal Fracking.

You need to hone your economic suite and pick better, more efficient ICE. ICE like Eli, Grim, Shadow, and Ice Wall are all great for slowing/stopping runners while staying on budget.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Mixer
United States
Brooksville
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Link for the win!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The point is that ICE is almost immaterial in this game. All it really does is cause the runner to have to take a turn or at most two to generate enough credits to easily bypass it.

Thus, any asset income generator for the Corporation is quickly burned, so half the cards you listed are non starters.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alejandro G.
United States
Hurst
Texas
flag msg tools
Sometimes you have to roll the hard six.
badge
I'm getting my men...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Icedanno wrote:
The point is that ICE is almost immaterial in this game. All it really does is cause the runner to have to take a turn or at most two to generate enough credits to easily bypass it.

Thus, any asset income generator for the Corporation is quickly burned, so half the cards you listed are non starters.


Yep... I guess the game is broken. We should all sell our stuff on eBay.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Presley
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Icedanno wrote:
The point is that ICE is almost immaterial in this game. All it really does is cause the runner to have to take a turn or at most two to generate enough credits to easily bypass it.

Thus, any asset income generator for the Corporation is quickly burned, so half the cards you listed are non starters.


You're right, I guess that's why my corp deck with small ICE and pure operation economy never wins. Oh no wait, it wins all the time, because it's fast and lean and doesn't let the runner just rig up and click for credits.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Mixer
United States
Brooksville
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Link for the win!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pure operation economy? Assets are generally burned before they pay off, so what do you mean?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Mixer
United States
Brooksville
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Link for the win!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OddCrow19 wrote:
Typically, if corp is NEVER winning, you might be playing wrong. A LOT of people do.

little rules mistakes can make it a totally different game


Any specific 'little rules mistakes' that are common? ... or uncommon but game.. err.. not changing, but altering?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R. Fetterkey
msg tools
Avatar
mb
Icedanno wrote:
Pure operation economy? Assets are generally burned before they pay off, so what do you mean?


He means his deck's entire economy is provided by Operations (like Hedge Fund, Beanstalk Royalties, or Green Level Clearance) and sometimes Agendas (like Corporate War or Gila Hands Arcology) rather than Assets (like Adonis Campaign, PAD Campaign, or Melange Mining Corp). Operations can't be trashed except by Imp or Demolition Run, so they can be a more reliable form of economy than Assets are.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Presley
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Icedanno wrote:
Pure operation economy? Assets are generally burned before they pay off, so what do you mean?


I play Weyland and all my money comes from operation cards (and one-shot agendas) that are all one use. It has no reusable economy like Gila Hands, Melange, or PAD, so it's super sensitive to economic drain from so-called "immaterial" ICE. But it wins frequently because it makes good use of taxing, efficient ICE to protect centrals while using cheap ETR to rush agendas behind.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Smith
United States
rancho cordova
California
flag msg tools
mbmb
can you post a decklist of your corp deck or decks? Maybe people can see if theres something and maybe tell us how you play that deck.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Drake Villareal
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Icedanno wrote:
OddCrow19 wrote:
Typically, if corp is NEVER winning, you might be playing wrong. A LOT of people do.

little rules mistakes can make it a totally different game


Any specific 'little rules mistakes' that are common? ... or uncommon but game.. err.. not changing, but altering?


Most of it is related to icebreakers.

>Making sure that the strength resets after each ice.

>Making sure that the icebreaker is of the correct type to be used on the ice.

>Making sure you aren't making one icebreaker strong enough to interact, and breaking with another

etc.

Also, remember, ICE isn't always about ending the run. It's often about being JUUUUST worth it enough for the runner to waste time and money on. That's why data raven is so good on r&d.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Dockter
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like watching these matches on youtube. You can learn a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Pr6CCl2QQ
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hugo
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Icedanno wrote:
Been playing for several weeks now, have all the packs.

I play corp side. In all that time, corporation has never won. A couple times I was able to advance 2 or 3 agendas, but several games the runner won with the corp having no agendas at all.

Runner turn 1: play several cards
Runner turn 2: generate income, (usually 4 to 12)
Runner turn 3: make a run bypassing all ice.
Rinse and repeat.

Corporation Turn 1: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 2: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 3: spend all coins to rez a piece of ice... which the runner breaks easily.


You mention that you "play corp side." The game is designed for players to play both runner and corp, taking turns playing each. This is actually quite fundamental to becoming good at the game: by playing each side, you begin to understand its strengths and weaknesses, and gain a better appreciation for how each one builds tempo and makes decisions. I would strongly encourage you to shift away from just playing corp to also playing runner from time to time. You might be surprised to find being runner also can appear difficult.

Second, you mention that on Turn 3, you spend coins to rez a piece of ice...does this mean you are spending clicks on the corp turn to rez ice? You spend clicks to install ice, but do not pay the rez costs until it is rezzed...and you only rez ice when a runner encounters it, and only if you decide you want to do so. So ice is normally only rezzed on a runners turn...meaning that when the runner first encounters a piece of ice, he/she doesn't know what they are going to be encountering.

Speaking of ice, there are different types of ice, and different types of icebreakers. If the runner does not have the appropriate icebreaker, he cannot break the subroutines on the ice. Are you checking to make sure the icebreakers are appropriate? If you are playing against other newer players, it should take them a while to build up a fully operational rig that can break all types of ice.

Finally, take a look at the decks here on BGG that have won tournaments. You have all the cards, so you can easily replicate them. Build one that makes sense to you and try it out. These decks have won tourneys, so you should be able to not only fare better, but also see how they manage economy and use different types of ice.

If all else fails, switch to Jinteki, throw in a bunch of traps, and let the runner break through all your ice only to suffer at the hands of your traps! :-)
18 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Konstantinos Thoukydidis
Luxembourg
Esch-sur-Alzette
Luxembourg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Icedanno, check out my youtube channel. I play mostly corporations and post my more interesting games there. You will see quite a few victories so this might give you some ideas to improve your game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JPG
Canada
Sherwood Park
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Threads similar to yours pop up on these forums on a regular basis. Ofter new players complain that it is hard to win playing the corporation.

Often, upon further investigation, the players are playing the game wrong. For example, corp player paying to rez ice ever time the runner passes it, as opposed to only once. Runner keeping the paid for strength increase for a breaker for the entire run or even after it, instead of only for the ice used.

My point being, the game is pretty evenly balanced, perhaps slightly favouring the runner. If you are having that much trouble, take the suggestions in the above posts. Often, the player may have misunderstood the rules, so I would suggest watching some of the beginner how to play videos first to ensure you are playing the game as designed.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Dockter
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Are you starting with 5 credits as the corp? Drawing a Hedge Fund can give the corp 9 credits turn 1 which is more than enough to rez a few decent ice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Gloor
Switzerland
Ostermundigen
Bern
flag msg tools
The statement below is false.
badge
The statement above is correct.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Two things:

* You do keep ICE after the runner gets past them the first time, right? ICE are permanent unless something explicitly trashes them.

* I really recommend trying to play the runner a couple of times. Personally, I wouldn't really understand what makes the runner tick, what's good and bad for him when the corp does it, if I wouldn't play both sides.

I think the second in particular should help you.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Harding
Australia
Ashfield
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Icedanno wrote:

Runner turn 1: play several cards
Runner turn 2: generate income, (usually 4 to 12)
Runner turn 3: make a run bypassing all ice.
Rinse and repeat.

Corporation Turn 1: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 2: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 3: spend all coins to rez a piece of ice... which the runner breaks easily.

But you play with the corp taking turn 1, right?

Also, play the runner to learn how to stop them.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
I don't know if it's this way in A:NR, but when I first learned original Netrunner I managed to miss that the runner has to bump his breaker strength up from its base stat for each individual piece of ice as necessary—it doesn't stay bumped for the whole run.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sonny A.
Denmark
Copenhagen
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Icedanno wrote:

Corporation Turn 1: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 2: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 3: spend all coins to rez a piece of ice... which the runner breaks easily.


This doesn't look right.

You don't rez ICE during the corporations turn. You rez the ICE when the runner approaches it.

Also, the corp should clearly play some more money generating cards. Operations or assets can help do that.

And as has been mentioned in this thread already. The corp pays once to rez the ICE and the runner has to pay every time. This is sometimes misunderstood by new players. So they pay to rez ICE every time the runner runs. Make sure you're playing right.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kasper Lauest
Denmark
Helsinge
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is the guy behind THIS thread: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1035093/dues-x-str-10-breaks...

If you're still insisting on playing Deus X as a card that breaks all subrutines on all ICE without even getting trashed, then it's no surprise that the runner always wins.
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alejandro G.
United States
Hurst
Texas
flag msg tools
Sometimes you have to roll the hard six.
badge
I'm getting my men...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That might explain it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Duncan
United Kingdom
Ellon
Aberdeenshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Icedanno wrote:
Corporation Turn 1: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 2: spend all 3 actions for 3 coins
Corporation Turn 3: spend all coins to rez a piece of ice... which the runner breaks easily.


If this actually how your turns go then possibly you're running ice that's too expensive, or not running enough economy, or your starting hand sucked and you should have mulliganed.

Also, if this is literally how your turns go then do you know that you start with 5 credits? Do you know that you need to click to install ice? Do you know that the corp automatically draws at the start of their turn? Do you know that your hand limit at turn end is 5? Do you know that you should almost certainly muligan if you draw a hand containing no ice that you can afford to rez.

There's also the possibilty that if your economy is non-existant and the runner economy is super-strong then are you playing someone more experienced or someone who net-decks and they aren't giving you a chance?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Doug Law
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
Actually, I think net-decking is GOOD for beginners. You should both be doing it. When you are comfortable with how to play your deck, make a few changes. Read the [Deck] posts on these forums to see why people make their card choices. Don't try to build your own until you are familiar with the game.

Play both sides, not just corp. It will familiarize you with the cards you are facing against, and will give you some ideas about what the runner may be holding when they take certain actions. You may also see your opponent do something as the corp you hadn't thought of.

Make sure you are applying the rules correctly, as people have stated in this thread.

The corp DOES take more finesse than the runner, and corp economy IS more difficult than runner economy. Try to figure out how to maximize what you have. When they trash your econ assets it actually puts them at a short term loss. Learn how to maximize that window.

And try to find a local group that already plays. If you play against the same person week after week, you can get in a rut. Try to find others in the wider world to test yoirself against, and share strategies and practices with them.

This is a great game and you jumped on early enough to grow with it. I hope your first few losses don't spoil it for you.

Good luck! (Because you will need some of that, too).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.