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Subject: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched! **31 HOURS REMAIN!** rss

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Alex Talbott
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Hello everyone!

Over the past 2 years, my family and I have been working on a tabletop game in our free time. We are truly excited to announce that we are going to Kickstarter now within a few days and we would like to invite you to support us and try out the game yourselves!

So if you're too old to trick-or-treat or you're not into haunted houses, we have created a fun way to spend your October with friends and family of all ages! Please take a look at our Kickstarter preview page as well as the YouTube video for a preview of what the game is about as well as the fun gameplay you can expect!

I will keep posting updates concerning the game, the Kickstarter, and other media releases as time goes on. Below are the links we have so far!



Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/ravenwicke
Twitter: https://twitter.com/_Ravenwicke
Kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/286375861/415956274?toke...
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
"HALLOWEEN DELIVERY CHALLENGE
What better way to spend Halloween night than playing WitchHUNT with a group of friends or the kiddos after Trick-or-Treating is over? A big push for us is to get the game in your hands before Halloween 2013. In order to achieve this for as many supporters as possible, THE VERY SECOND THAT OUR INITIAL GOAL IS MET, WE WILL SEND OUR FIRST EDITION TO PRESS; even if the actual KICKSTARTER still has time left. This means that the faster we can meet our goal, the faster you will receive your game. While there are no guarantees, we will do everything we can to deliver your copy before halloween."





If the printers are ready to go, they must have created an advanced copy so you could sign off on it. It's pretty standard that before they print everything with possible errors, they print a copy or two to make sure everything is correct.

And if they have done this, why post a 3D illustration of the game and not the game itself?

Also, what's to stop someone from cancelling their pledge after they have received the game?

Is anyone else seeing something here...?

Jorune
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Kelly N.
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
According to the latest KS update, a game play video will be posted soon. It is in the editing process now.
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
While I don't see any reason to think there's something nefarious here, I agree that the whole delivery before Halloween thing makes no sense. At best it's poorly thought out.

Since KS doesn't let them charge credit cards until the KS is closed, and that only happens October 30th I don't see any way they could possibly be meeting a Halloween delivery unless they're paying for the printing out of their own pocket and shipping to customers they haven't even collected money from… which is very foolish indeed.
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Magumbo Ooglagotto
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
I am a member of the Witch Hunt Team. And believe it or not, I really do appreciate you opening up a discussion on this. I am glad to have a chance to address the issue.

"If the printers are ready to go, they must have created an advanced copy so you could sign off on it.
Actually, we have used a print-on-demand service and have produced 2 prototypes; so we avoid the 'large' printer setup fees until necessary.
(ONE OF WHICH WAS USED IN THE GAMEPLAY VIDEO)

"It's pretty standard that before they print everything with possible errors, they print a copy or two to make sure everything is correct." In today's print world, you don't do this. We can order a blueline if we choose, but the smarter money goes to digital proofing and an advance prototype from a print on demand service.

"And if they have done this, why post a 3D illustration of the game and not the game itself?"
In all honesty, because 3d looks better than the prototype. However, we wanted to make sure everyone knew it was only 3D.

"Also, what's to stop someone from cancelling their pledge after they have received the game?
The answer is naive trust. Our desire to deliver before halloween will possibly backfire. However, we believe we have a couple of REALLY good solutions to this issue. I obviously won't disclose them here; because apparently there ARE people that tend to think that way...so I prefer not to offer our strategy on the topic.

Is anyone else seeing something here...? "
I hope that what you are seeing is a game that has had an extreme amount of effort and love put into it from a company that wants only to set a new precedent in making its customers happy. After 2 years and more all-nighters than we can count, its ashame that the efforts aren't more obvious.

Thanks again- Please reply with any other concerns; because we want to ensure that we put our best foot forward.


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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
"While I don't see any reason to think there's something nefarious here, I agree that the whole delivery before Halloween thing makes no sense. At best it's poorly thought out."
We couldn't agree more. Please advise us on the smarter route to go...instead of trying to fill the requests before Halloween? It IS possible to do, provided the goal is met quick enough. Because of this, why not try to do it?

Since KS doesn't let them charge credit cards until the KS is closed, and that only happens October 30th I don't see any way they could possibly be meeting a Halloween delivery unless they're paying for the printing out of their own pocket and shipping to customers they haven't even collected money from… which is very foolish indeed.
Definitely foolish; assuming we have no way of protecting ourselves.
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Kelly N.
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
I recall the Kickstarter project, Tessen Card Game, shipping the game before campaign's end for certain pledge levels. So the practice of doing that is not unprecedented.
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Kelly N.
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
Rules are up, here.

http://ravenwicke.com/rules/
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Jacq L
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
As an international backer, I have to say I'm not really excited about the early delivery thing. Strangeness aside, the inclusion of the "Shipping not included..." on the stretch goals kills it for me.

$25 to ship to Canada, then another $25 to ship the stretch goals and other 'half' of the Family edition.

That's $100 for what amounts to a deck of cards, a board, and a handful of tokens. For comparison, a recent Kickstarter I backed for $100 was effectively the base game + 8 expansions, loads of extra bits and bobs, and shipping to Canada. Another I backed for $85 included three decks of cards and a few scattered bits (meeples, cubes, a few dice).

Good luck, and sorry it sounds harsh, but your "Early shipping" goal is a huge red flag for backers outside the US.
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Jonathan Warren
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
peytofu wrote:
"It's pretty standard that before they print everything with possible errors, they print a copy or two to make sure everything is correct." In today's print world, you don't do this. We can order a blueline if we choose, but the smarter money goes to digital proofing and an advance prototype from a print on demand service.

Actually, in today's print world you still do this.
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
JoffW wrote:
peytofu wrote:
"It's pretty standard that before they print everything with possible errors, they print a copy or two to make sure everything is correct." In today's print world, you don't do this. We can order a blueline if we choose, but the smarter money goes to digital proofing and an advance prototype from a print on demand service.

Actually, in today's print world you still do this.


Yeah, I wasn't going to argue with them, but I know the boardgame KS' I have been involved with have had their unboxing video for the advanced proof copy, with some of them having issues that were than resolved for the actual print run.

Jorune
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
@JoffW

Actually, in today's print world you still do this.
Not really. The process in print, for the last 20 years, has been that:
1) 4 pieces of film are created from your files.(CMYK)
2) a match print is generated from the film which you sign off on.
3) plates are created from the film
4) an offline press is readied with all the blue plate only and then 1 copy from that plate(blue)is ran on rag paper. (this is a blueline) Because this copy is only the blue plate, only blue is visible.
5) This blueline is your last chance for any errors.

I did mention that we had an option for a blueline, however, there is a better way: (direct to press + digital proofing)
1) Files are submitted to the printer
2) Plates are created from the files
3) a digital proof is electronically sent to the customer for final signoff. (full color)

You can also opt for a 1-off, full color print from the printer...via hi-res color printer; but once the the actual press is moving, money is burning fast. So, whether you do it the 'old' way or the 'new' way, you never start the press for 1 print and wait for approval. Not only would that be an incredible waste of final ink & expensive paper, but the printer's press would be sitting idle while waiting approval.

Hope this helps...

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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
Yeah, I wasn't going to argue with them, but I know the boardgame KS' I have been involved with have had their unboxing video for the advanced proof copy, with some of them having issues that were than resolved for the actual print run.

Yes. It's a full color prototype that has been done with a print-on-demand service. It's truly amazing. You can send your files, including boards and boxes, and even request tokens and dice for your game, and get just a single print done. Unfortunately, just like normal printing, the lower quantity you send, the higher the price per unit is. That is because of setup & available materials.

Please don't consider all this an 'argument'. If there is a better way, I will do anything I can to do it.
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
As an international backer, I have to say I'm not really excited about the early delivery thing. Strangeness aside, the inclusion of the "Shipping not included..." on the stretch goals kills it for me.

$25 to ship to Canada, then another $25 to ship the stretch goals and other 'half' of the Family edition.

That's $100 for what amounts to a deck of cards, a board, and a handful of tokens. For comparison, a recent Kickstarter I backed for $100 was effectively the base game + 8 expansions, loads of extra bits and bobs, and shipping to Canada. Another I backed for $85 included three decks of cards and a few scattered bits (meeples, cubes, a few dice).

Good luck, and sorry it sounds harsh, but your "Early shipping" goal is a huge red flag for backers outside the US.


I have to agree. Unfortunately, Kickstarter only offers "outside the US" as an option. So, in essence, the same pricing to send the game to Russia, China, or Korea would apply to Canada...so what can you do but aim for a worst case scenario? When we set up the kickstarter, we had thought that we shouldn't even allow for shipping outside the US while on Kickstarter. But then, what does that do to the people who absolutely want it before Halloween? So, our solution was to simply charge the worst case scenario.

My advice on customers outside the US, is if you can wait, just order it in the online store after the Kickstarter is over. That way, shipping is calculated based on your actual zip code; not just "in or out" of the US. Make sense? I hope?

Not a perfect solution, because the life of the product completely depends on the success of the Kickstarter; but again, in the black & white world of Kickstarters, should we have just said that outside-the-US people are out of luck entirely?
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Jacq L
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
peytofu wrote:
When we set up the kickstarter, we had thought that we shouldn't even allow for shipping outside the US while on Kickstarter. But then, what does that do to the people who absolutely want it before Halloween? So, our solution was to simply charge the worst case scenario.

International backers (with perhaps the exception of Canada and Mexico) would likely not receive the game by Halloween if you shipped today, fwiw, much less October 17th. And I'm sure most people would prefer a late game without typos and errors than a poorer product received on time (see: Dungeon Roll and it's missing rulebook pages). It also begs the question, if you were prepared to send it to rush printing, why wait until October to launch?

Good luck with the campaign.
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
It also begs the question, if you were prepared to send it to rush printing, why wait until October to launch?

I wish I could blame it on someone else, but the reality is that because of the production funding(lack thereof), I was indecisive about legal fees, copyright costs and even offering the family edition. However, we had poured too much into the game to stop. So, when we finally decided to do it, October was almost here. Yes; I promise, I have kicked myself daily for such a lack of faith!
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
peytofu wrote:
Yeah, I wasn't going to argue with them, but I know the boardgame KS' I have been involved with have had their unboxing video for the advanced proof copy, with some of them having issues that were than resolved for the actual print run.

Yes. It's a full color prototype that has been done with a print-on-demand service. It's truly amazing. You can send your files, including boards and boxes, and even request tokens and dice for your game, and get just a single print done. Unfortunately, just like normal printing, the lower quantity you send, the higher the price per unit is. That is because of setup & available materials.

Please don't consider all this an 'argument'. If there is a better way, I will do anything I can to do it.


Well if it's as you say, why have all the other kickstarters for boardgames ran off a coulle advanced copies for proofing? Freedom: The Underground Railroad ran a few off and found issues with the color on the dice. The issue was fixed and the copies of the game are being shipped.

Battle For Souls did it, problem with the insert.

Euphoria: Build a Better Dystopia just got theres a few weeks ago, board, dice, custom tokens and all. Everything looks good.

These are just a few of the ks i have been involved in. All have cards, dice, some have boards, etc.

Is there something they are doing wrong? I believe some of them even used Panda Games, considered the top in China manufacturing of board games. I wouldn't think king of the hill is doing something considered outdated.

Jorune
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
Well if it's as you say, why have all the other kickstarters for boardgames ran off a coulle advanced copies for proofing? Freedom: The Underground Railroad ran a few off and found issues with the color on the dice. The issue was fixed and the copies of the game are being shipped.

That is an awesome example. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/119506/freedom-the-un... is using print-and-play. If you look under their 'publisher', they specifically list (web published). Follow that link for more info. While we don't want to offer print-and-play, it is a good option for doing 1-2 prints.

Battle For Souls did it, problem with the insert.

no idea what the other 2 did... HOWEVER --->

Is there something they are doing wrong? I believe some of them even used Panda Games, considered the top in China manufacturing of board games. I wouldn't think king of the hill is doing something considered outdated.
This is awesome! I had no idea these guys were out there. Unfortunately, they require a minimum of at least 1500 units. BUT- They do use the exact same technique I am describing. Please read #4 under their services page: http://pandagm.com/services and you will see that they provide color proofs & an unprinted prototype.

I really do appreciate your feedback! Finding Panda will give us an awesome option for our expansions down the road.

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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
I put forth a challenge.

Everyone who is in disbelief or is untrusting or whatever go and back the campaign. That way if you are right you can say "I told you so".


Truthfully, I don't care who thinks what. I'm just a backer who wants this to fund so I get my game
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
peytofu wrote:

Is there something they are doing wrong? I believe some of them even used Panda Games, considered the top in China manufacturing of board games. I wouldn't think king of the hill is doing something considered outdated.
This is awesome! I had no idea these guys were out there. Unfortunately, they require a minimum of at least 1500 units. BUT- They do use the exact same technique I am describing. Please read #4 under their services page: http://pandagm.com/services and you will see that they provide color proofs & an unprinted prototype.

I really do appreciate your feedback! Finding Panda will give us an awesome option for our expansions down the road.



Well, I have to say I had misunderstood what those 'proof' copies were. It appears that, at least according to Panda's own site, that you are absolutely correct.

It appears that the unboxing videos must be those 'advanced copies' that constitute the first couple boxes off the assembly line that get flown in while the rest of the print run continues. It would seem in the case of Freedom, the dice color did not match what they had agreed to with those colored proofs and unprinted prototype, therefore the publisher was able to get new dice at no cost to themselves.

Thank you very much for enlightening me.

Jorune
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
no worries at all. It's all good. Thanks again for the Panda lead- I am watching them closely!
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
The Complimentary TShirts have also been posted! Take a look
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/286375861/witch-hunt-rav...
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
Witch Hunt looks fantastic! I can't wait to get a copy!
 
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Alex Talbott
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Re: WitchHUNT's Kickstarter now launched!
Only 31 hours remain and we're still in need of backers! Come support us to get your hands on a truly amazing, creative game!
 
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