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Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Daybreak Expansion» Forums » Variants

Subject: Quorum cards rss

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Nikola Adamus
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Hi!

I'm quite new to BSG and BGG but I'd like to share some of my thoughts connected with Quoroum cards. I've noticed that Quorum cards are not so often used during game than they should be (I'm playing with all expansions). There are also some cards which I haven't ever seen played in any game so I deceided to look through them and I found that some of Quorum cards are very specific and I can play them only in the very rare situations (almost never).

Here is the list of them:

- Probation
- Eulogy
- Assign Vice President
- Assign Arbiter (I'm not sure about that name - I'm playing with Polish version of this card)
- Encourage Mutiny

I'm planning to play without them - Quorum will have then 24 cards and I think it can make it more useful. What do you think about that?

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Kenneth H
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I agree that Probation is mostly useless. If you do play it on a Cylon, it may have a tiny bit of presence as a warning against spiking, and it may be worth it if it causes them to hesitate, but usually, I don't bother.

Eulogy has a very specific purpose. Sure, take it out if you don't play with executions, but it's good enough, since executions happen sometimes.

Assign Vice President was never useless due to the two politics cards, but the other effect was trash. It actually seems a lot more relevant in Daybreak as insurance against a Cylon seizing the presidency, as Administration is much easier to use.

Assign Arbitrator is quite nice if there are AQ checks in your future. Two politics cards ensure the action wasn't entirely wasted.

I'll agree Encourage Mutiny doesn't get a lot of use, and it's kinda sad next to Presidential Order, but it still has a place. As a human who can't trust the Admiral, or a Cylon giving the title to your buddy and trying for the morale loss, it's decent.
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David F
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Don't agree that the Quorum Cards you listed are especially specific; all Quorum Cards are situational.

But if you really think so, let somebody be Tory and now every Quorum Card is awesome!
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Mateusz Kominiarczuk
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The perceived problem with Quorum deck comes from the changes brought by expansions. In the base game, President was able to get everything the team might ever need. Resources management (Morale, Food)? Check. Dealing with suspects/finding your team-mate/making humans lives miserable? Check.

New cards from Pegasus and Exodus diluted the deck. Now the Quorum is unpredictable - to use it means to rely heavily on luck. President title provides power, but even if we accept that the most coveted cards (such as Authorization of Brutal Force) should require luck or effort, in case humans lack the former, they can count on the latter. As it is, that's not the case.

In games with no allies and no Roslin to play her OPG, the President requires at least 5 actions in order to max his Quorum hand. It leaves nearly two times more cards in deck. And some cards are simply useless unless specific conditions arise.

Bottom line is: usefullness of each card depend on the game, but some are too specific and often suboptimal. Therefore, they can be either left in box for a smaller, slightly more reliable Quorum deck, or tweaked.
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David F
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You're not supposed to guarantee getting something with enough effort.

You're supposed to do the best with what you have/get.

View the Quorum Deck as a box of chocolates where you never know what you'll get, not as the U.S. House of Representatives.
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Mateusz Kominiarczuk
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I'd argue otherwise.

There are various unpredictable elements of the game, mostly the Crisis deck. Those are the challenges players (i.e. humans) face. But to do so, they need resources they can rely on even so slightly.

That's how the base game was designed and balanced. "Piloting spikes checks, and is good only for space combat; Tactics supports, and Politics is all about skill checks".

Expansions are neat, but they throw that balance away, and it isn't necessarily a good thing.

With 5 cards out from 29-card deck, it's still hard to count on "that one card", but at least a hunt for it isn't entirely pointless. Basically, the whole change looks like: "let's take out the least-useful Quorum cards to undo one expansion worth of deck dilution".
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Nikola Adamus
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But there is still a lot of cards, getting rid of those listed in my previous post should make Quorum deck more useful for different situations, and not always someone plays Tory.

I think that Probation gives you nothing - checking cards just before skill check doesn't prevent adding them. Eulogy works only with executions and with Daybreak they rarely occur. Assign Arbitrator (thanks for telling the proper name) could have been more useful if it would change Airlock skill check as well.

Quorum deck is left with 24 cards and you're right - they're are situational but on the other hand they don't require really specific conditions and they don't have trash actions. Encourage Mutiny is a worse version of mentioned before Presidential Order and there's no need to keep them both in the deck.

 
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ZsuEtAm wrote:
I'd argue otherwise.

There are various unpredictable elements of the game, mostly the Crisis deck. Those are the challenges players (i.e. humans) face. But to do so, they need resources they can rely on even so slightly.

That's how the base game was designed and balanced. "Piloting spikes checks, and is good only for space combat; Tactics supports, and Politics is all about skill checks".

Expansions are neat, but they throw that balance away, and it isn't necessarily a good thing.

With 5 cards out from 29-card deck, it's still hard to count on "that one card", but at least a hunt for it isn't entirely pointless. Basically, the whole change looks like: "let's take out the least-useful Quorum cards to undo one expansion worth of deck dilution".
Daybreak does have 2 copies of Popular Influence, so that does give others a chance to better cycle through the Qcard deck. Also, one of the complaints of just the base game Qcards was the humans just XO the president to use the 2-Qcard location, and they'll always have ABF on them, making a win via centurions a non-viable option.
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Szpon wrote:
But there is still a lot of cards, getting rid of those listed in my previous post should make Quorum deck more useful for different situations, and not always someone plays Tory.

I think that Probation gives you nothing - checking cards just before skill check doesn't prevent adding them. Eulogy works only with executions and with Daybreak they rarely occur. Assign Arbitrator (thanks for telling the proper name) could have been more useful if it would change Airlock skill check as well.

Quorum deck is left with 24 cards and you're right - they're are situational but on the other hand they don't require really specific conditions and they don't have trash actions. Encourage Mutiny is a worse version of mentioned before Presidential Order and there's no need to keep them both in the deck.

ABF is only useful if heavies or centurions appear. Should we get rid of those since not all games will yield cents?

Probation lets you call a bluff with a potential cylon to see if he'll spike a skill check. That's like saying IC's worthless b/c the cylons can still spike skill checks, but now, you'll know who they are, and what cards were put in to better calculate things. With this info, you can perhaps determine who the other cylon is, and have a better "guestimate" what DD (Destiny Deck) has in store for you.
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Mooseulie Ferenczy
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I've seen probation used exactly once and it was our first game of Pegasus and never again. But, I do recall them saying at one point that one of the conscious design decisions with the expansions was to dilute the quorum deck to discourage the base game problem of using a bunch of actions to cycle through the deck. The bad/situational cards exist to make humans reconsider spending a bunch of actions mining the quorum deck because you can't predict if you are going to hit a lot of garbage or get something useful.
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Stanisław Krawczyk
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My subjective experience of playing with the diluted Quorum deck is that it's less fun to be President now. In a recent game run by TDaver, I cycled through something like 14 Quorum cards as a Cylon Baltar and didn't find a single card that I could really use to my advantage.

Of course, this is just anecdotal evidence. But I'd be more than willing to try out Nikola's little variant. We should probably keep in mind that in Daybreak there are still other things that discourage players from using the Quorum Chamber too much (especially if you're playing with Demetrius, but not only then – Mutiny cards are important and the XO store is diluted as well).
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Mark L
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I'd remove Probation. The others are debatable. Encourage Mutiny is the next most useless as a human, but you need Cylon cards in the deck as well.
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Mateusz Kominiarczuk
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ackmondual: that's what I'm talking about, but you're slightly mistaken, dare I say. Most of the time it isn't worth it, but ABF can remove up to 3 raiders from one space area. With SP at hand to surely avoid Population loss, it's the clutchiest of clutchy lifesavers, but it works wonders. Civilian Self-Defense is just a doubly-limited (doesn't affect Centurions once they board, requires a civilian ship in just the right space, and the civilian in question is on the line, not "just 1 Pop"), and thus - weaker "third copy" of ABF.

Sure, I can agree that it's nice to have some special effects, and that not everything should be always useful, and just XOing President ad nauseam definitely shouldn't be the name of the game. But even if we get rid of 1, or even 3 or as much as 5 cards, it hardly is. Basegame President was just too good, and every expansion acknowledged that. Pegasus did the most with 9 new Quorum cards (some of them very nice, if situational, others not so much) and enforced 10-cards Quorum card limit, to limit hoarding. Exodus added 3 more cards.

Now the Quorum has 29 cards in total, including Probation, which in most variant games is either simply left out of the game or replaced with another copy of Release Cylon Mugshots. And I say: 29, and probably even 28 is just a tad too much. 26 might be okay. 24-25 seems about perfect. I agree that the Popular influence is great help in Quorum cycling, though I haven't seen it used, yet. And that's because:

1. Quorum isn't that great anymore all by itself.
2. Between all the skill cards, Mutiny, Pegasus, Demetrius and revised Colonial One, not to mention space combat (if the sole Pilot defects), jump cycle (early jumps), and Cylon and crisis management, there is a lot going on anyway. Too much to focus on Quorum-hoarding.

And never forget what some of you have already pointed out: not every Quorum card is useful in every situation, and not in every game. Yet they have their place in the game. Say, a Presidential Pardon/Execute Prisoner, and two Arrest Orders. Very specific, and I'd still consider them core, even though Execute... came with an expansion. Eulogy, on the other hand - I'd rather not have in the deck unless I'm playing either with Pegasus loyalty and New Caprica (which encourages lots and lots of executions, and endangers Morale) or Ionian Nebula (random executions, high risk of Morale loss).

It's just that it's already hard to get to the specific cards you need in any given situation. Maybe so hard that it's not worth it to ever even bother. So why shouldn't we do it Arkham Horror-style, and treat objectives more like AH-scenarios - to make them affect Quorum, crisis, and maybe even skill cards decks? BSG is already halfway there. It's just a jump to the left...

[Calls for another/changed treat: BSG Scenarios.]
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Pieter
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Of the cards the OP mentions, only Probation is one I do not really see the use of -- though I have seen it played. All the others I have used at times in games, with specific purposes. Sometimes as a hidden Cylon President, sometimes as a human.

In essence, Quorum draws might suck, or they might be highly useful. They are a bit of a gamble, but a gamble that may pay off big. Woe to the humans who deliberately ignore the Quorum deck.

I wouldn't remove any of the Quorum Cards. You are taking away options. Options that you sometimes like to have.
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Tom M.O.Check
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ZsuEtAm wrote:


2. Between all the skill cards, Mutiny, Pegasus, Demetrius and revised Colonial One, not to mention space combat (if the sole Pilot defects), jump cycle (early jumps), and Cylon and crisis management, there is a lot going on anyway. Too much to focus on Quorum-hoarding.

Amen to that.

That's why I don't like Daybreak. I love to play Tory, but now she's almost useless. I was too busy keeping my hand out of mutiny cards to play with Qs.
Daybreak's got nice new skill cards, great treachery cards and interesting Demetrius option but mutiny cards should - in my opinion - be only a variant, not coercion.
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