Ben Bertrandt
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Hi All,

We just finished the Perils of the Lost Coast Campaign (RIP Blackfang) and now get to add a skill feat to the unstoppable Lini and Valeros combo.

We were curious what you guys did when it came time to pick.

Giving Valeros a +1 to Strength was my first thought but he's already so nasty in that category.

For Lini, once again Strength seemed like a good way to go because she uses that 1d4 Strength combo in her attacks a lot.

Thanks in advance for the wisdom +2,

Ben (Valeros the Great) and Abby (Lini the Stupendous)
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Matthew Bachtold
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For Lini, I would strongly recommend Wisdom +1, Lini rolls a lot of recharge checks on her spells, and the plus one can easily make the difference between recharging a Cure or losing it.

For Valeros, I agree that adding to his Strength is overkill, at least until we start seeing higher combat checks on monsters. I would prefer to increase one of the commonly used d6s, such as Dex or Cha. When you are going for a difficulty 6 check to close a location, having a d6+1 helps a lot.
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Patrick Jones
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Understand that I'm in roughly the same place as you, so while I have reasoning to back up my choices, I don't have the experience to say whether they actually work.

For Valeros, I'd take either Dexterity or Charisma. Dexterity checks seem to come up a lot, while charisma helps to get allies. With diplomacy, I'd put Valeros in the "good, but not great" category with both those abilities, and the extra +1 will be a huge benefit. (I'm leaning toward Dexterity for mine, just because I ended up with a magic ranged weapon on Valeros.)

Lini has several options that seem good, but I'd go with Wisdom. Spells are a huge part of Lini, so being able to more easily acquire and recharge them is the path I'd go down.
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Darrell Goodridge
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Just to give you an idea of what my party did with Lini and Amiri (who is comparable to Valeros). We've earned 2 skill feats so far, and Lini put both in Strength, and I (Amiri) put 1 in Strength and 1 in Charisma.

I'd imagine in both cases it would depend on how well you're typically rolling. If Lini is doing a lot of melee fighting, STR is good. If you're having trouble recharging spells WIS is good. Valeros already has a +2 to CHA iirc, but adding 1 more makes it reliable, and there are several CHA to close locations as well as the sweet allies. Otoh, Valeros is only a d10 on combat, so +1 there is good as well.

Long story short, look at how you've been rolling and pad where you've been lacking, but also can realistically make a difference. For example, Valeros has a d6 for DEX, so adding 1 there still won't pass all the DEX 9 checks, and barely adequate for the DEX 7s.
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Ben Bertrandt
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Hi All,

Man, I so love this forum.

We're leaning pretty heavy towards Wisdom for Lini (recharging spells is such a biggie for her) and Charisma for Valeros (to get those Allies).

The point about Valeros only having a D10 on Strength was a super good one. That's the only thing poking me right now on not slam dunking Charisma.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Ben
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Fromper Fromper
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Another point to remember is that if you're playing through Burnt Offerings next, then your next adventure gives another skill feat as a reward. So you get two, back to back.
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Ben Bertrandt
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Hey there Fromper,

Yeah, we just won that first scenario of Burnt Offerings and saw that. Here's how we played out the two skill feat bonuses per character:

For Lini (we love the Spell focus like you're doing) so...
First one: +1 to Wisdom to make divine spell recharges a little easier
Second one: +1 to Strength (the times Lini has no spells)

For Valeros (he's all about melee weapons) so...
First one: +1 to Charisma (to acquire allies)
Second one: +1 to Strength (for the no weapon combats or STR based checks)

Have you played either of those characters? How did you assign those skill points? What's your favorite campaign character so far?

Ben (and Abby)

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Darrell Goodridge
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bendbuddy wrote:
Hey there Fromper,

Yeah, we just won that first scenario of Burnt Offerings and saw that. Here's how we played out the two skill feat bonuses per character:

For Lini (we love the Spell focus like you're doing) so...
First one: +1 to Wisdom to make divine spell recharges a little easier
Second one: +1 to Strength (the times Lini has no spells)

For Valeros (he's all about melee weapons) so...
First one: +1 to Charisma (to acquire allies)
Second one: +1 to Strength (for the no weapon combats or STR based checks)

Have you played either of those characters? How did you assign those skill points? What's your favorite campaign character so far?

Ben (and Abby)

You know the + to Valeros' STR counts towards his melee, right?
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Ben Bertrandt
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Cardboardjunkie wrote:
You know the + to Valeros' STR counts towards his melee, right?
Oh for sure, Darrell. I just decided to add the other skill point to Strength because Valeros doesn't always have a weapon in his hand. So now I get a d10+1. Plus, there are some STR only checks where the +3 melee can't be used. And on Strength Melee checks, I now get a +4. That was all rather appealing.

Adding that skill point to Dex just wasn't getting me pumped because I haven't been getting any good ranged weapons or really even trying to do so.

Curious - had I typed something in my posts that made it sound lik I didn't think the STR +1 and the melee +3 didn't get added together on melee checks? I'm not asking in any tone of course. I probably should have said, "for STR-only based checks in that last post).

Appreciate you weighing in on this thread. I always welcome feedback and game tips.

Ben
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David Ainsworth
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bendbuddy wrote:
Oh for sure, Darrell. I just decided to add the other skill point to Strength because Valeros doesn't always have a weapon in his hand. So now I get a d10+1.
You can still use the melee skill when unarmed.
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Tor Sverre Lund
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CletusVanDamme wrote:
bendbuddy wrote:
Oh for sure, Darrell. I just decided to add the other skill point to Strength because Valeros doesn't always have a weapon in his hand. So now I get a d10+1.
You can still use the melee skill when unarmed.
Exactly. Valeros (and anyone else) can use STR or Melee in combat, the latter always being better if you have it, so now he would do d10+4 unarmed.
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Darrell Goodridge
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In your previous post you had written, +1 STR (for non-weapon combat and STR based checks) which implied, to me, that you might not know it applies to the Melee skill as well.
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Ben Bertrandt
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Gawain wrote:
CletusVanDamme wrote:
bendbuddy wrote:
Oh for sure, Darrell. I just decided to add the other skill point to Strength because Valeros doesn't always have a weapon in his hand. So now I get a d10+1.
You can still use the melee skill when unarmed.
Exactly. Valeros (and anyone else) can use STR or Melee in combat, the latter always being better if you have it, so now he would do d10+4 unarmed.
[in my best South Park voice] "What, what, what?!"

How does Valeros get to use the melee strength in a non weapon fight? Is that a character things or does that apply to any character? Gads, I feel like a fool for overlooking that

Darrell: oh I gotcha. Yeah, I wrote that a little sloppy. Think I was still too giddy on getting to bump my character
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Todd Warnken
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Any character can use melee for unarmed combat.

Page 11 wrote:
Most monsters can be defeated with a combat check. Weapons
and many other cards that can be used during combat generally
tell you what skill to use when you attempt a combat check; if you
don’t play such a card, use your Strength or Melee skill.
(A few items
that can be used in combat don’t use any of your skills; they instead
specify the exact dice you need to roll or the result of your die roll.)
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Ben Bertrandt
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Thanks, Todd. I think I accidentally totally misread that mechanic.

Geez - I'm starting to think I should have put that point into DEX instead of Strength for Valeros The +4 for strength melee is rather overkill.
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Ben Bertrandt
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Cardboardjunkie wrote:
Otoh, Valeros is only a d10 on combat, so +1 there is good as well.
Hi Darrell,

This line tripped me up a little. Valeros is always getting that Strength Melee +3 so wouldn't a +1 there be rather over the top?

As Todd and Tor pointed out in the Rule book:

"Most monsters can be defeated with a combat check. Weapons
and many other cards that can be used during combat generally
tell you what skill to use when you attempt a combat check; if you
don’t play such a card, use your Strength or Melee skill. (A few items
that can be used in combat don’t use any of your skills; they instead
specify the exact dice you need to roll or the result of your die roll.)"

I'm starting to see the Dex boost angle (especially cause I just nabbed a fairly good magic crossbow). But maybe I'm missing a tactic reco from ya.

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts,

Ben
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Darrell Goodridge
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Keep in mind that monsters are not going to stay at 12 combat forever. I expect them to quickly ramp up into the high teens/twenties. So no, it would not be "overkill".

IMHO, I think DEX would be his worst stat to boost. A d6 for a ranged weapon is terrible no matter how many points are added, and you'll rarely if ever clear a 7 or 9 trap with a d6. Just use your Blessings for those instances and put your point somewhere useful.
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Chris Nagati
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Valeros has a D8 for Dexterity not a D6
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Fromper Fromper
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I still wouldn't bother boosting his dex. Pick up Thieves Tools for barriers, and stick to strength and charisma for his skill boosts. Eventually, the monsters will be tough enough to justify the higher strength, though you can just get away with using the discard powers of your melee weapons in every fight for now (which is a recharge for Valeros).

As for Lini, I like the wisdom and strength boost idea for her first two skill feats, though I could see putting both points in either one of those skills, if you're trying to specialize more.

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Darrell Goodridge
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Callistan wrote:
Valeros has a D8 for Dexterity not a D6
Ok. Didn't check the card, went off the second post. It may be worth one point in DEX if it's a d8. I wouldn't put more than that though.
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Ben Bertrandt
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Thanks, guys. Excellent suggestions. I'm going to leave it CHR and STR for the +1 bumps.

- Ben
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Cardboardjunkie wrote:
Keep in mind that monsters are not going to stay at 12 combat forever. I expect them to quickly ramp up into the high teens/twenties. So no, it would not be "overkill".
That seems likely, but do you have a source for that? It seems like if all the checks get harder then the heroes will just fail more often.

In most RPG's you can specialize because the other members of the party can cover your weaknesses. In PACG, this is difficult to do. If the balance is off, then the heroes will need to specialize to pass any check reliably but then they will fail at checks they aren't specialized in. Currently, that would push all the characters into combat specialists since that is the most common and most important type of check so far.

Hopefully there will be more examine effects so that the party members can effectively cover each others' weaknesses.
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Darrell Goodridge
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in one of the interview videos, mike says by adventure 6 you'll be fighting monsters in the 30-40 range, so I just assumed it would ramp up rather quick. Also, keep in mind that it won't be based solely on your stats. You'll have weapons that give Melee + 2d12 or something. Spells that give Arcane/Divine + 2d12 or whatever. The boon cards will grow to meet the rising challenge, so you wouldn't need to have everyone specialize in combat.
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If you are fighting things in the 30-40 range then it seems like any single +1 is hardly going to matter. That is interesting though, because it might mean that your deck restrictions will matter a lot more than your stats.
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slacks wrote:
If you are fighting things in the 30-40 range then it seems like any single +1 is hardly going to matter. That is interesting though, because it might mean that your deck restrictions will matter a lot more than your stats.
By then, I'm assuming you'll have at least 5 or 6 skill feats. Valeros can boost his strength 4 times, which is probably what most people will do. So he'll be sitting at d10+7 base melee, with at least a 1d8+2 weapon that he can recharge for an extra 1d6 in hand at all times. When he recharges the weapons, that's a minimum of 12, maximum of 33, average 22.5 without adding anything else like blessings, allies that boost combat rolls, help from other characters' powers and spells, etc. And that's with a +2 Longsword - there will be better weapons than that available by then.

Just think about all the monsters that start at 8-9 and add the adventure deck number to their difficulty. That puts them at 14-15 when you're in adventure #6, and they don't get removed like the basic monsters. Also, the current toughest monsters at 13-15 don't get removed, either. I expect we'll see plenty of monsters in the 20s by then, but I'd guess only the villains and a few of the toughest random monsters will break into the 30s.

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