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Rebel Raiders on the High Seas» Forums » Variants

Subject: VP Value of Southern Cities rss

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John Griffey
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Houston
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OK, I know, what kind of yuk posts a variant before he has even played the game? I tell you: a guy who thinks rolling a die to determine Victory Points (VP) lost for losing a Southern City is too random. Example: the South could lose only 1 VP for losing Richmond or New Orleans but could lose 6 VP for losing Tampa or Key West. Too random! There's enough randomness already. The VP loss for losing Southern cities (and some forts) should correspond to their actual importance. Viz:

VP Value----Southern City
2----Fredericksburg
10---Richmond
4----Norfolk
3----Goldsboro
1----New Berne
4----Wilmington
6----Charleston
2----Augusta
3----Savannah
0----St. Augustine
Total Atlantic Theater: 35 VP

0----Key West
0----Tampa
1----Tallahassee
1----Pensacola
2----Mobile
8----New Orleans
2----Galveston
2----Vicksburg
2----Arkansas Post
2----Memphis
2----Forts Henry & Donelson
5----Nashville
3----Chattanooga
6----Atlanta
3----Montgomery
Total Gulf Coast and Interior Theaters: 39 VP

Special Mississippi Control: +7 VP to the North's Southern Cities count, and -7 VP from the South, if the North controls Memphis, Vicksburg, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Forts Jackson and Moultrie. These 7 VP are treated for Victory purposes as if they were a City.

Special Louisville Control: -10 VP from the North's Southern Cities count, and +10 VP to the South's, if the South controls Louisville. The South cannot take Louisville until Turn 2. (Tennessee did not formally secede until June, 1861, and was very unprepared for the start of the war.)

EDIT
Economic Punishment of South
At the beginning of each Northern player turn, subtract 2 VP from the South for each of the following conditions:

1) North controls every Mississippi River space.
2) North controls Richmond.
3) North controls four of these six spaces: Fts. Henry & Doneslon, Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Augusta, Montgomery (includes Selma iron works).

Southern City/Fort
VP Losses----Southern Builds

0-14 VP------5 Builds
15-29 VP ----4 Builds
30-44 VP-----3 Builds
45-59 VP-----2 Builds
60+ VP-------1 Build

END EDIT.

Comment: The total VP value of all Southern Cities given above equals the total number of Southern Cities times the average value of a die roll, 3.5. I think the victory conditions under-value the South eastern seaboard states and cities. About half the South's population and industry was there. The conditions also under-value the loss of Tennessee, which was second in the South in industry after Virginia. Even New Orleans was by Southern standards an important industrial center (shipping mostly). Of course, the cities in this game represent not just the city itself but the entire state or region associated with it.

Victory Conditions
North loses at beginning of December 1862 Turn if it does not control 20 VP worth of Southern Cities. (Unionists lose the congressional elections to Peace Democrats.)

North loses at beginning of December 1864 Turn if it does not control 40 VP worth of Southern Cities. (Unionists lose the congressional elections to Peace Democrats.)

North loses at beginning at end of August 1866 Turn if it does not control 60 VP worth of Southern Cities. (Unionists lose the congressional elections to Peace Democrats.)

North wins if at any time it controls 60 VP worth of Southern Cities, and the Southern VP Total is Negative.

 
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Steve Carey
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AnimalMother wrote:
I tell you: a guy who thinks rolling a die to determine Victory Points (VP) lost for losing a Southern City is too random. Example: the South could lose only 1 VP for losing Richmond or New Orleans but could lose 6 VP for losing Tampa or Key West. Too random.
John, you overlooked [11.68] which mandates a (one-time) VP loss of 3 dice (2 dice for Atlanta) when Richmond falls (this is noted on the Play Aid under "VP loss", too). So the average VP loss for Richmond will be 10.5, very close to your proposal of 10 (good calculation, there).

In addition, [13.2] calls for an extra die (and another if Atlanta is captured) to be rolled for extra VP loss each and every Confederate Supply Phase that the Rebel capitol is not in their control. This only exacerbates the loss of Richmond (or Atlanta).

Remember too, when Richmond falls the Confederates permanently lose its Arsenal [14.23], which can be crippling.

It's always nice to get variants (I'll have some included in the next issue of C3i), but in my opinion the loss of Richmond is already properly handled in the game.
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John Griffey
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Thanks for the response.

blush Glad to read about Richmond having due weight.

Maybe too much weight for Richmond? -10.5 VP and -3.5 VP each turn.

Also, the VP dice rolls are too random for my taste, whatever the weight.

robot And as a relentless realism robot, I still don't like the equivalence of unequal cities, e.g., Key West or Tampa = Charleston or Mobile.

Atlanta was a burg of about 5,000 in 1861; its only significance was as a railroad intersection. The Cumberland Valley (Ft. Henry & Ft. Donelson, Nashville), Chattanooga (locomotive works, mines), and even Northern Virginia (Fredericksburg) were more industrial than Atlanta. Augusta's powder works was critical by 1864. In the game, it's just an Inland Fort worth 0 VP.

See EDIT above.

 
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Fred Schachter
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Hi John,

Here's Rebel Raiders on the High Seas designer's Mark McLaughlin's response to your suggested variant...

"Thank you John for your ideas; while it would of course require a good deal of playtesting, your idea of rating the Southern cities is appreciated and has merit. The Confederates already pay a considerable penalty for losing the bigger cities in the game - including rolling additional dice every supply phase for losing Richmond, Atlanta and the Mississippi cities. That the first two also are the only cities that produce batteries (which can be used to add defenses to cities or to build ironclads) only makes their loss even more painful to the South.

The loss of port cities of course means fewer places to bring Blockade Runners in to unload, so that loss is also built in - as is the strategic conundrum when Mobile falls - which opens up so many pathways into the interior.

The North wins the game in one of several ways - taking the three big cities on the Mississippi plus Richmond and Mobile is one way (26 points on your schedule), another is to take 16 cities, which must include the Mississippi cities, and either Richmond or Atlanta, and knock the South down in VPs....

The Random Point loss is there to reflect the impact of the city's loss on everything from industry and agriculture to manpower and morale, and I do like the randomness, but would have no argument with you using your point system instead....if you do, let me know how it works.

Sincerely,

Mark G. McLaughlin"
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Michel Sorbet
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Anybody tried this variant? I am curious to know how it played.
 
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