Mikhail Kruzhkov
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The other day we have found ourselves in a tricky situation:
Dualla was a cylon in the Brig. Just before a skill check she decided to use her OPG to draw 3 treachery cards to add them either to her hand or to that skill check. If she decides to add them to the skill check, can I, as a human, then play a Restore Order card in order to cancel all skill check abilities for this skill check?

I thought no, because cards have already been added to the skill check via Dualla's OPG. But my fellow human players argued that I can, because I the regular step of adding cards to the skill check has not started yet. What do you think?

There is also a third option - maybe after Dualla declares that she is using her OPG to draw treachery cards but before she actually declares that she adds them to the skill check, I can try to interrupt her with my Restore Order card? But this window of opportunity can be really short. Anyway, I am really confused here, so I would like to here what do you guys think about it.

__
Edited for mistakes
 
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Allan Clements
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I think they could probably play a card after she uses her OPG. Similarly someone could probably Political Prowess after she uses it and waste the cards.

If Dee is the current player though, she could play a card to make the skill check reckless before anyone is allowed to play Restore Order.
 
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Hendrik R
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There is a subtle difference in wording here. Both Dee's OPG and Political Prowess say "Before making a skill check ...", while the usual interrupts Investigative Committee, Scientific Research, and the reckless-makers say "Play before cards are added to a skill check." So the order would be

1. Announce a skill check
2. Political Prowess and Dee's OPG
3. Start the skill check
4. Interrupt phase (IC, SR, Reckless-Makers, A Second Chance, Restore Order, ...)
5. Contribution phase - play cards into the skill check

So yes, while Dee's OPG adds cards to the skill check, that doesn't mean that the Contribution phase has already begun. A Restore Order can still be played in the interrupt phase.
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Mikhail Kruzhkov
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OK, I guess this makes sense. Thank you very much for your responses!
 
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Steye
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Other illogical things could also happen:

1. Dee's OPG
2. Invesitgative committee (after cards have been played?!)
or:
1. Dee's OPG adds 3 blue cards to spike a skill check
2. Scientific Research: all blue cards count as positive

The complete OPG of Dee reads something like:

Before making a skill check; look at the top 3 cards of any skill deck; add them to your hand or add them to the skill check.

Normal gameplay is:

1. Play cards before a skill check
2. Add cards to a skill check

I think Dee's OPG belongs to the "Add cards to a skill check catergory". Simply because the OPG doesn't say: add them immediately.

So my list would be:

A. Political Prowess
B. Investigative Committee, Scientific Research, Reckless cards
C. Dee's OPG
D. Skill cards

 
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Mooseulie Ferenczy
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http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Battlestar_Galactica_FAQ
Q: How exactly is the timing of the interactions of character abilities, skill check abilities, and interrupts during the handling of a crisis? wrote:

8. Political Prowess
9. Dee's "Fast Learner" (if she decides to add the cards to the skill check, set them aside for the moment), Chief of Staff, Arbitrator, Cylon Hatred, Friends in Low Places, Investigative Committee, Scientific Research, and/or one reckless interrupt (Support the People, At Any Cost, Guts & Initiative, Jury Rigged)
10. Destiny
11. Add Dee’s "Fast Learner" cards to the skill check

It looks like Dee's Fast Learner is decided at the same time the decision to play Restore Order, and you can respond to people deciding to play things by playing more things, so Dee chooses to draw the treachery cards, she decides to play or add them to hand, another player can then play Restore Order, then you add in Destiny, then Dee plays in her Fast Learner cards.
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Mooseulie Ferenczy
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Just to add to my previous answer: if I unrevealed cylon Dee wanted to force a play, if she has a reckless interrupt, she can make the skill check reckless, which would force the humans to either Restore Order right then or let the check become reckless. Once they decide to let the check become reckless, they can't Restore Order, so she can use her OPG to draw treachery.
 
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Mikhail Kruzhkov
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j0frenzy, thanks for pointing me to the FAQ section about skill check timing, it's amazing. But that actually makes me a bit confused again, because two people now said something that I don't understand. Maybe I am missing something important here.. Why a reckless check should prevent me from playing Restore Order later, before destiny cards are added to the check? And how I can prevent the skill check from becoming reckless? I can choose another reckless card if I am the current player but the skill check would still be reckless?

 
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Neil Muller
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It's because of how reckless cards and Restore Order interact. Quoting from the Daybreak rulebook describing combining Pegasus and Daybreak:

Daybreak rulebook, p 16 wrote:
When a “Restore Order” Card is played before a skill check, that check cannot then be made Reckless. Similarly, a “Restore Order” Card cannot be played before a skill check if that check has been made Reckless. If two or more players wish to play cards at the same time, the current player determines which player may play his card first.
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Klaus
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I think there's two intentions behind Dee's OPG:

1) She can circumvent the 1-card-only restriction of the brig with it.
2) She has to use it before she sees how many (or which, with an IC) cards are played into the check before her.

As we can see, this presents some problems with timing.

The timing FAQ is useful, but I don't think it's infallible. It would be a very good idea to ask for an official clarification, now that the issue has become more significant due to the Treachery/Restore Order interaction.

I certainly disagree that a Political Prowess played afterwards would "waste" the cards. In that situation they should go to her hand.

The main timing question is, does Dee have to decide whether to add the cards to the check or her hand immediately, or should this decision be made only when the interrupt phase is over.
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Mikhail Kruzhkov
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Neil, thank you very much for the clarification!
 
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Mooseulie Ferenczy
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Hannibal Rex wrote:
I think there's two intentions behind Dee's OPG:

1) She can circumvent the 1-card-only restriction of the brig with it.
2) She has to use it before she sees how many (or which, with an IC) cards are played into the check before her.

As we can see, this presents some problems with timing.

The timing FAQ is useful, but I don't think it's infallible. It would be a very good idea to ask for an official clarification, now that the issue has become more significant due to the Treachery/Restore Order interaction.

I certainly disagree that a Political Prowess played afterwards would "waste" the cards. In that situation they should go to her hand.

The main timing question is, does Dee have to decide whether to add the cards to the check or her hand immediately, or should this decision be made only when the interrupt phase is over.

I generally agree with the resolution of Political Prowess before any other skill check ability because of how it interacts with specific abilities. That someone plays an IC and then someone remembers they have a PP is not an unresolvable situation, but once you get to the point of drawing cards from a Support the People or Dee's OPG you shouldn't be able to use Political Prowess because you cannot walk those back. PP shouldn't be good enough to negate a reckless (Support the People) but you can't just put the cards back. That would also allow 1 skill card to defeat an OPG because it forces Dee to draw cards (and possibly soft reveal) that she may want to play directly into the skill check.
 
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j0frenzy wrote:
Hannibal Rex wrote:
I think there's two intentions behind Dee's OPG:

1) She can circumvent the 1-card-only restriction of the brig with it.
2) She has to use it before she sees how many (or which, with an IC) cards are played into the check before her.

As we can see, this presents some problems with timing.

The timing FAQ is useful, but I don't think it's infallible. It would be a very good idea to ask for an official clarification, now that the issue has become more significant due to the Treachery/Restore Order interaction.

I certainly disagree that a Political Prowess played afterwards would "waste" the cards. In that situation they should go to her hand.

The main timing question is, does Dee have to decide whether to add the cards to the check or her hand immediately, or should this decision be made only when the interrupt phase is over.

I generally agree with the resolution of Political Prowess before any other skill check ability because of how it interacts with specific abilities. That someone plays an IC and then someone remembers they have a PP is not an unresolvable situation, but once you get to the point of drawing cards from a Support the People or Dee's OPG you shouldn't be able to use Political Prowess because you cannot walk those back. PP shouldn't be good enough to negate a reckless (Support the People) but you can't just put the cards back. That would also allow 1 skill card to defeat an OPG because it forces Dee to draw cards (and possibly soft reveal) that she may want to play directly into the skill check.


Well, Change Of Plans already defeats Boomer's OPG, but I digress.

Also, it's possible that after playing StP, someone THEN draws Pol. Pr. off of it.
 
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Klaus
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I've got a reply from Tim, and this should hopefully clear up the timing question on Dee's ability once and for all.

Quote:
Regarding Dee's Fast Learner ability, and its timing and interaction with interrupts, especially the Restore Order card from Daybreak:

The cards from Fast Learner get drawn "before making the skill check" - which is also before interrupts such as Investigative Committee, Scientific Research or Restore Order are played.

But cards are added to the check only after such interrupts. Either of those three cards could affect Dee's decision whether to take the cards into her hand, or add them to the check.

Consider the following situation: Dee is an unrevealed Cylon in the brig. She activates it to break out, and uses her OPG to look at the top three Treachery cards, intending to play them into the check, and make the humans' lives miserable with their Skill Check abilities.

However, in the interrupt phase, another player plays Restore Order. Is Dee forced to play the cards into the check anyway, or does she decide whether to play them or take them into her hand only after she sees which interrupts get played?


Quote:
Thanks for the question. When Dee uses her "Fast Learner" ability she does not need to decide whether she will add them to her hand or to the skill check until cards are being added to the skill check (although she may choose before that point). If she wishes to wait until then, she should keep those cards apart from her hand. Obviously if she plays a card she drew for it's effect before the skill check (an Investigative Committee, for example) , she adds the cards to her hand. Hope that helps!

Tim Uren
Associate Creative Content Developer


And Ack, what exactly has Change of Plans to do with Boomer's OPG?
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Mindy G
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I think he's saying that Boomer could OPG to pass a skill check, and then someone would play Change of Plans to override the Pass effect she was trying to get. For example, she wants to auto-pass Legendary Discovery for the distance, but then someone has a Change of Plans for them.
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Klaus
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That makes sense, thanks. I was only thinking about Boomer deliberately failing a check.
 
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