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Subject: Your thematic pet peeve rss

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Michael Redston
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Mine is Scorched Earth: The corp traces the runner's location and bombards his apartment building. How can something like a body armor help in any way, shape or form? and why aren't all of his hardware and programs destroyed? the only answer I have for myself is pretty stupid: The runner figues out his building is going to be bombed so he packs up his gear and flees, but just as he's starting to gain distance from the building it expldoes and debris flies at him, something his armor can help a little with. If this sounds legit to you, try justifying him carrying his Monoloith on his back...

But enough of this. What's your thematic pet peeve?
 
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Mychal
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How does Aesop pawn your connections, and why does he pay you the same for everything from chips to entire consoles?
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Ben Finkel
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Why is this in Creation and Control?
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Arto H
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Lot of cards seem a way too complicated and abstract theme wise. I generally like programs and ICE. They has to be abstract. I especially don't like operations which make me think what this card is even supposed to tell. These include SEA Source, Midseason Replacement, Trick of Light, Green Level Clearance ad Celebrity Gift. I like cards which are simpler like Freelancer.

If I would have to choose one card it would be Hostage. I just don't understand how this card makes a lot of sense theme wise (Also I like when the game just focuses on hacking and not hostages etc.). Just naming Hostage Networking or something instead would had been better.
 
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Robbie M.
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Azeltir wrote:
Why is this in Creation and Control?
This sounds like another pet peeve.
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Michael Redston
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Azeltir wrote:
Why is this in Creation and Control?
oops blush

if someone could move this to the A:NR forum that'd be great
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Why does The Cleaners not remove bad Publicity. 'Cleaner' thematically means someone who disposes of the evidence of some misdeed. Not the hitman who kills someone, but the guy who cleans up the scene so there is no trace.

This card should remove bad publicity, not deal meat damage. Its not 'hitman-squad'. Its the guy who disposes of your body AFTER they Scorched Earth you.

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Why does the flavor text "the game has changed" appear on Ichi 2.0 instead of Viktor 2.0?

Why is the tagline on the core set box ("The world changed.") a shortened form of the tagline for the Android board game ("The world changed. Crime did not.") instead of something that makes sense?
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Mychal
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Alexfrog wrote:
Why does The Cleaners not remove bad Publicity. 'Cleaner' thematically means someone who disposes of the evidence of some misdeed. Not the hitman who kills someone, but the guy who cleans up the scene so there is no trace.

This card should remove bad publicity, not deal meat damage. Its not 'hitman-squad'. Its the guy who disposes of your body AFTER they Scorched Earth you.

Léon would like to have a word with you.
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Micheal Keane
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Alexfrog wrote:
Why does The Cleaners not remove bad Publicity. 'Cleaner' thematically means someone who disposes of the evidence of some misdeed. Not the hitman who kills someone, but the guy who cleans up the scene so there is no trace.

This card should remove bad publicity, not deal meat damage. Its not 'hitman-squad'. Its the guy who disposes of your body AFTER they Scorched Earth you.

To be fair, I've seen the term used both ways in fiction.

Leon/The Professional is a "cleaner", for example.

Edit: Got ninja'd. Damn it
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R. Fetterkey
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Alexfrog wrote:
Why does The Cleaners not remove bad Publicity. 'Cleaner' thematically means someone who disposes of the evidence of some misdeed. Not the hitman who kills someone, but the guy who cleans up the scene so there is no trace.

This card should remove bad publicity, not deal meat damage. Its not 'hitman-squad'. Its the guy who disposes of your body AFTER they Scorched Earth you.
If you get Scorched but manage to miraculously survive and are barely clinging to life, the clean-up crew shows up and finishes you off.
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Pete Martyn
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ElAdoranSureshot wrote:
Why is the tagline on the core set box ("The world changed.") a shortened form of the tagline for the Android board game ("The world changed. Crime did not.") instead of something that makes sense?
To me that has a double meaning. It calls back the tagline from Android, but it also hints at Android: Netrunner's origins in another intellectual property. The world did indeed change, from Night City to New Angeles and Heinlein.
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Mychal
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ffaristocrat wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
Why does The Cleaners not remove bad Publicity. 'Cleaner' thematically means someone who disposes of the evidence of some misdeed. Not the hitman who kills someone, but the guy who cleans up the scene so there is no trace.

This card should remove bad publicity, not deal meat damage. Its not 'hitman-squad'. Its the guy who disposes of your body AFTER they Scorched Earth you.

To be fair, I've seen the term used both ways in fiction.

Leon/The Professional is a "cleaner", for example.

Edit: Got ninja'd. Damn it
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Tom Keaten
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Why did they use that art for Inside Job, when it clearly belongs in Stimhack?
 
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Evan
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ElAdoranSureshot wrote:
Why is the tagline on the core set box ("The world changed.") a shortened form of the tagline for the Android board game ("The world changed. Crime did not.") instead of something that makes sense?
That's such a funny line. I mean, sure, they want their slogan to tie the Android universe together, fine, whatever, but it's such a conspicuous retreat from the original phrase that it always makes me imagine someone saying "The world changed. Crime--uh, actually, crime changed kind of a lot too, come to think of it."
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Jack Kelly
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Neksol wrote:
Why did they use that art for Inside Job, when it clearly belongs in Stimhack?
Look at the card carefully. He's sitting on a toilet.

Why has the flavour text become significantly worse since Core?
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Madd Cow
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Just a few (Mostly from the Corp Side)

- How can a diesel drinking scrub make mincemeat out of some of the best corporations in the world and make more money then my company at the same time?

- Why do I get less done in a day with my multinational company (Clicks) than a single person at a computer?

- Why wouldn't everyone own a Magnum Opus and become millionaires over night?

- Why does a virus purge remove just the counters, and not the virus themselves? Seems like a pretty bad version of Norton/McAfee.

- Why can't I just remove my entire company from the 'net' until I advance enough Agendas to achieve world domination? Or at least after the first security breach, shut it down for a day or so and run diagnostics on it.

- Why is it bad to destroy a hacker's hacking program? (Grim)

- How does Jinteki hurt me when they follow through with an agenda? Am I always connected to their mainframe? And if so, why don't they just surge the hell out of it?

- (Executive Retreat) Why does my company suddenly get safer when everyone goes on holiday?

- (Dedicated Response Team) How do they get to the runner so fast? And if they have that kind of response, why can't I attach a nuke to them?

- If the Cyberdex Trial is that good, why don't we own the retail version instead of keeping up all the staff to clean up malware.

- Instead of removing parasite counters over and over, why don't we instead study it and make a permanent defense against it?

- When I create a new remote, why is there always a bank connection attached to it? (Bank Job)

- Until I have thrown something away, why do I even have an undefended, open lined archives, and why does looking at that empty server help the hacker? If it's because all of our servers are interconnected, why isn't their an option to disable that feature?

- Can't I have a 'no hostage' tolerance policy?
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Evan
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Runner credits and clicks are definitely not equivalent to corp credits and clicks (consider Account Siphon, for starters). Having live, interconnected servers is probably a prerequisite for running a remotely functional global megacorporation. I assume Cyberdex Trial and Executive Retreat are pulling your leg, to an extent.

But this one made me remember my own pet peeve:

MaddCow wrote:
- Why wouldn't everyone own a Magnum Opus and become millionaires over night?
Magnum Opus, that money-laundering masterpiece, allows you to earn two credits for every unit of effort that you put into it. Which, as it turns out, is exactly how much money you'd make exerting the same amount of effort at an actual job.

(In that light, MO reminds me of this art installation.)
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Doug Law
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kobold47 wrote:
MaddCow wrote:
- Why wouldn't everyone own a Magnum Opus and become millionaires over night?
Magnum Opus, that money-laundering masterpiece, allows you to earn two credits for every unit of effort that you put into it. Which, as it turns out, is exactly how much money you'd make exerting the same amount of effort at an actual job.
But Armitage furloughs everybody every six clicks...
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Ben Finkel
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MaddCow wrote:
Just a few (Mostly from the Corp Side)

- How can a diesel drinking scrub make mincemeat out of some of the best corporations in the world and make more money then my company at the same time?

- Why do I get less done in a day with my multinational company (Clicks) than a single person at a computer?
Both of these are answered pretty simply: runner clicks and credits are different than corp clicks and credits. Account Siphon doesn't create money from nothing, and the ratio of Corp:Runner money is probably significantly higher than 2:1 regardless. As for the clicks, once again, a Corp click represents a significant amount more than a runner's in terms of man-hours, and the mandatory draw signifies the necessary R&D the corp has to do to keep investment flowing.

Quote:
- Why wouldn't everyone own a Magnum Opus and become millionaires over night?
I interpret Magnum Opus to be made painstakingly by the runner, as the name implies. Very few people have the expertise to make such a thing. You're not buying your programs off the shelf.

Quote:
- Why does a virus purge remove just the counters, and not the virus themselves? Seems like a pretty bad version of Norton/McAfee.
Because the viruses are so expertly written that the corp can only treat the symptom, not the cause. It takes the full might of Destroyer ICE to hunt down and eliminate the root cause.

Quote:
- Why can't I just remove my entire company from the 'net' until I advance enough Agendas to achieve world domination? Or at least after the first security breach, shut it down for a day or so and run diagnostics on it.
Because then you'll lose solvency immediately? Part of these agendas is being an available company, interacting with the world at large and thus the net. Imagine if Google went down for a day in today's age. Talk about bad publicity!

Quote:
- Why is it bad to destroy a hacker's hacking program? (Grim)
Rototurret and Ichi show it's clearly not, but perhaps there's something so vicious about Grim's implementation that showing it off to the world will rally public sympathy. However, none of the Illicit ICE showed off so far (including Shinobi) really hold a candle to old Netrunner's truly terrifying Black ICE (which didn't even give a bad publicity on rez, but some runner cards let you give Bad Publicity for them. But Bad Publicity was very different then).[/q]

Quote:
- How does Jinteki hurt me when they follow through with an agenda? Am I always connected to their mainframe? And if so, why don't they just surge the hell out of it?
Imagine it's zapping you when you next connect to the net (which is basically all the time). Personal Evolution's using their precogs that they're cloning to get a temporary fix on you, but you quickly turn off the pain.

Quote:
- (Executive Retreat) Why does my company suddenly get safer when everyone goes on holiday?
The safety you're buying was in the advancements you made for the agenda. You're clearing the HQ workspace of all information (sensitive and otherwise), and you're presenting that to the world as a well-deserved holiday, that you've earned (again, represented via the advancements).

Quote:
- (Dedicated Response Team) How do they get to the runner so fast? And if they have that kind of response, why can't I attach a nuke to them?
Pretty much all non-fatal meat damage involves the runner scampering away from the pain (like from the Private Security Force). They're so fast because they're dedicated. They're closing in on you the moment you touch the server (or get the tag). And I doubt they'd take kindly to wearing a nuke?

Quote:
- If the Cyberdex Trial is that good, why don't we own the retail version instead of keeping up all the staff to clean up malware.
I doubt the full version is consumer price-friendly. Who knows, perhaps we'll see more products from CyberSolutions in the future, but for now, the other corps are wary of getting to married to that megacorp, which has it's own fair share of cyber crime problems. Maybe the full version actually isn't more effective?

Quote:
- Instead of removing parasite counters over and over, why don't we instead study it and make a permanent defense against it?
The runners are good, man. Really good. And the corp doesn't have any window into the source code. Why is this sort of thing OK in all cyberpunk? Because it's a good way of having the little guy have a way to hit back. Roll with it.

Quote:
- When I create a new remote, why is there always a bank connection attached to it? (Bank Job)
Each remote is like a tiny subbranch of the company, even if it's only maintaining the ICE that's protecting the ramping up for future corporate involvement.

Quote:
- Until I have thrown something away, why do I even have an undefended, open lined archives, and why does looking at that empty server help the hacker? If it's because all of our servers are interconnected, why isn't their an option to disable that feature?
What cards are we talking about here? All corps have archival information, and some of it's even valuable to the right people (Desperado, Dirty Laundry). If the corp's leaving that stuff open to any weeflerunner, you can show that off to the world and make fun of them as part of your glory run (Notoriety). I'll admit, I'm not wholly sure about how Retrieval Run works, but maybe the runner's getting inspiration about their own discarded ideas but taking a look at the corp's.

Quote:
- Can't I have a 'no hostage' tolerance policy?
OK, Hostage is a thematic mess, to me. But perhaps Hostage isn't dealing with your opponent's corp, but some other entity? I've kidnapped Thomas - now I'll force HB to get the NAPD to release that vagabond Kati Jones to get her to help me punch Weyland in the socks.
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R. Fetterkey
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Hostage IMO actually has some of the best theme of any card. If you look carefully at the art, Thomas Haas is only pretending to be handcuffed and he's crossing his fingers behind his back.

I think the art is showing that you're only pretending to take Thomas hostage-- in exchange for giving him the ransom money (the Director is probably trying to cut him off), he hooks you up with some of his connections.
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Miikka Sohlman
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MaddCow wrote:
Just a few (Mostly from the Corp Side)
I was just about to start addressing these one by one, because each one can be easily explained. But Ben was faster so I'll spare you another wall of text.

But to give a summarized answer to all the "why does this big corporation seem so ineffective at everything" questions: Exactly because it's a big honking corporation. Have you ever worked in one? The bureaucracy is immense and the wheels turns slowly. They can never keep up with nimble individuals unless they've managed to hire some passionate geek like Akitaro Watanabe AND have the wisdom to give him all the resources and workspace he needs.

And as already stated, the credits are not 1 to 1 between corps and runners. The actual sums of money involved do not even meet in the same ballpark.
 
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Madd Cow
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I thought that this was about listing thematic pet peeves, not in justifying/explaining them. I know why most of these things exist in the NR universe, they just are a pet peeve of mine in the card game
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Diesel
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fetterkey wrote:
Hostage IMO actually has some of the best theme of any card. If you look carefully at the art, Thomas Haas is only pretending to be handcuffed and he's crossing his fingers behind his back.

I think the art is showing that you're only pretending to take Thomas hostage-- in exchange for giving him the ransom money (the Director is probably trying to cut him off), he hooks you up with some of his connections.
I don't think so. Thomas Haas has gotten himself into some sticky situations in the past (The Source), but this one is real bad. He's crossing his fingers because he's hoping that his mom, the hardened, vicious executive of a megacorporation, will cover for him one last time. Just look at her face. It's no sure thing.
 
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David L.
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dasmrh wrote:
fetterkey wrote:
Hostage IMO actually has some of the best theme of any card. If you look carefully at the art, Thomas Haas is only pretending to be handcuffed and he's crossing his fingers behind his back.

I think the art is showing that you're only pretending to take Thomas hostage-- in exchange for giving him the ransom money (the Director is probably trying to cut him off), he hooks you up with some of his connections.
I don't think so. Thomas Haas has gotten himself into some sticky situations in the past (The Source), but this one is real bad. He's crossing his fingers because he's hoping that his mom, the hardened, vicious executive of a megacorporation, will cover for him one last time. Just look at her face. It's no sure thing.
Nah, he's not even handcuffed. He's in on it.
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