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Subject: One small idea for a plenty new shogi variants rss

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Rio Malaschitz
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I was trying a one idea for a new Shogi variant. There is a example on small board. Rules are very similar to Shogi. You must take opponent king or reach opponent's corner with a king.

Movement.

All Stones move only forward. Backward you can move only when take opponent's piece or when king is in check.

Movement rules depend on level of piece:
Level3: One field in all directions (3 forward, 3 backward)
Level2: One field in sideward (2 forward, 2 backward)
Level1: One field forward (1 forward, 1 backward)
King has possibilities as Level3.

Capture.

Similar as in Shogi: If you capture opponent's stone, it became your stone, but one level weaker. Level3 stone became Leve2 stone. Level2 stone became Level1 stone. Level1 stone is captured forever.

There is one more rule: When your stone (not a king) enter to colour corner , stone is captured by your opponent.

I tried this game on small board. But is possible create larger variants with bigger boards and with more higher levels stones. This is chess variant where is no draw and game must be finished.


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christian freeling
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Malaschitz wrote:
If you capture opponent's stone, it became your stone, but one level weaker. Level-3 stone became Level-2 stone. Level-2 stone became Level-1 stone. Level-1 stone is captured forever.

...

This is chess variant where is no draw and game must be finished.

The first idea is new to me, a hierarchy where pieces drop rank in the process of dropping. It might be used as a generic principle in chess variants where drops are possible, but doesn't it also take away the undercurrent towards decisiveness? Can such a game peter out because of the diminishing strength of the pieces?

Has the curious rule about the bottom- and top-cell have anything to do with that? It seems a bit strange because all levels do have a backwards option, so why would a piece sacrifice itself? Do I misread the rule maybe?

 
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Rio Malaschitz
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christianF wrote:
It seems a bit strange because all levels do have a backwards option, so why would a piece sacrifice itself? Do I misread the rule maybe?


Sorry for my English. Backward is possible ONLY when stone capture another stone or King when is in check.
 
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christian freeling
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Malaschitz wrote:
christianF wrote:
It seems a bit strange because all levels do have a backwards option, so why would a piece sacrifice itself? Do I misread the rule maybe?


Sorry for my English. Backward is possible ONLY when stone capture another stone or King when is in check.

Ah, my bad, I actually did miss that! Yet I'd be interested in the reason for the rule. Did anything turn up in playtesting that made it necessary?
 
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AbStrateGyk
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Quote:


There is one more rule: When your stone (not a king) enter to colour corner , stone is captured by your opponent.



So why would one move his piece to a colored corner to get captured?
 
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Drink Me
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Abstracticon wrote:
Quote:


There is one more rule: When your stone (not a king) enter to colour corner , stone is captured by your opponent.



So why would one move his piece to a colored corner to get captured?


Presumably to prevent zugzwang, lack of legal moves, or similar.
 
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christian freeling
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sollnurspielen wrote:
Abstracticon wrote:
Quote:
There is one more rule: When your stone (not a king) enter to colour corner , stone is captured by your opponent.

So why would one move his piece to a colored corner to get captured?

Presumably to prevent zugzwang, lack of legal moves, or similar.

Two scenarios:

* the capture is part of the moving player's move
* the capture is a formal move made next by the opponent

In the latter (less likeky) case, the move can only create a new move to the cell vacated by the piece that was moved to the corner.

In the former case it is still the opponent's move, and that's usually no real help either if you are forced to move next and you already had only the one move before.

One (if only one) interesting thing about the game is the generic rule of diminishing powers of re-entered pieces. My first thought was: "You could build a game around that". In case that might materialize (not in a chess game though), try to beat me to it.


P.S. You might consider starting with weak pieces and then incrementally increase their power on re-entering. Seems more logical.
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Joe Joyce
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christianF wrote:
Malaschitz wrote:
If you capture opponent's stone, it became your stone, but one level weaker. Level-3 stone became Level-2 stone. Level-2 stone became Level-1 stone. Level-1 stone is captured forever...

The first idea is new to me, a hierarchy where pieces drop rank in the process of dropping. It might be used as a generic principle in chess variants where drops are possible...

For what it's worth, there are 3 chess variants I know of that use the drop a level mechanism, Mortal Chessgi, Mortal Shogi, and Kamikaze Mortal Shogi, the 1st and 3rd by Fergus Duniho and the 2nd by Roberto Lavieri and Fergus Duniho.
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Richard Hutnik
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I am not quite sure I got this right, but now looking over it, I am reminded of Martian Chess, the Icehouse game.
 
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Russ Williams
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docreason wrote:
I am not quite sure I got this right, but now looking over it, I am reminded of Martian Chess, the Icehouse game.

Hmm, but this shogi variant seems to work like most shogi variants: pieces belong to a specific player, and ownership changes due to capture (via the drop rule).

In Martian Chess, ownership changes by position on the board (all the piece on your half of the board are yours, and all the pieces on my half of the board are mine) - and captured pieces are permanently eliminated.
 
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Richard Hutnik
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joejoyce wrote:
christianF wrote:
Malaschitz wrote:
If you capture opponent's stone, it became your stone, but one level weaker. Level-3 stone became Level-2 stone. Level-2 stone became Level-1 stone. Level-1 stone is captured forever...

The first idea is new to me, a hierarchy where pieces drop rank in the process of dropping. It might be used as a generic principle in chess variants where drops are possible...

For what it's worth, there are 3 chess variants I know of that use the drop a level mechanism, Mortal Chessgi, Mortal Shogi, and Kamikaze Mortal Shogi, the 1st and 3rd by Fergus Duniho and the 2nd by Roberto Lavieri and Fergus Duniho.


Now I have the Mortal Kombat song in my head:
 
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