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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » General

Subject: White correctly modeled K'Tinga in ad - why the false advertising? Why the fraud? rss

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Steve Smith
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On the WizKids website here: http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2013/10/09/star-trek-attack-win...

...it advertises a beautiful white correctly modeled (conning tower not wrongly put 90 degrees) K'Tinga-class cruiser, as seen here:



If I didn't know better, I'd probably order a bunch of those. Unfortunately, I do know better. If I did order a bunch of those they would come to me green and incorrectly modeled and I'd be pretty angry.

So, why the fraud?
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Dave Benhart
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Because marketing departments suck.
 
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John Czahor
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Just to make YOU angry, and to be intentionally deceptive. It does wonders for a company.

Clearly not because of a miscommunication between creative and marketing.
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Val Cassotta
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The interesting bit is that the model above is the Tactics Kronos One model...

(though this appears to be the CGI, not the actual physical model)
 
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traitor armor
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JustinKase wrote:
The interesting bit is that the model above is the Tactics Kronos One model...

(though this appears to be the CGI, not the actual physical model)


Disagree.

Even in Tactics it was the green modle used.

Actual pic....




Preview image...




And that is the green version above, here is a white for comparison...

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Dan Knight
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Why the grandstandong why the hyperbole?

It's not an advertisement, it's a promo piece. There is no false advertising or fraud here just a different picture.

Personally I hope somebody in marketing is sat there laughnig his rocks off at all the fanboys frothing at the mouth about the wrong bridge section so threw that out to bait them.

Sadly, it's probably just a comms error, if the stock image from tactics was the white, it;'s probably been pulled from a shared drive of images to be put together and was grabbed as it was probably labled "K'tinga.jpeg" and nobody looked.

editorial mistakes happen, you just have to deal with it. Me I ciouldn't care less whatthe bridge section looks like or what colour it is as I'll be re-painting it anyway and it STILL won't be white
 
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Don D.
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Whizzwang wrote:

Why the grandstandong why the hyperbole?

It's not an advertisement, it's a promo piece. There is no false advertising or fraud here just a different picture...


editorial mistakes happen, you just have to deal with it.


He may be being dramatic, but I assure you your above quotes are incorrect. Any store or person who bought these ships sight unseen based off the advertisement images would certainly succeed in a court case to have the contract rescinded based on mistake and/or misrepresentation of fact.
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Kristoff Bergenholm
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It's false advertising, and by this point, it has to be deliberate. They screwed up the picture on the Starter set, and they're putting forth the incorrect picture here, too.

I'm really starting to get pissed off about how incompetently Wizkids is handling this.
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Jeff Whaley
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No, they would not be. For one thing, they would need to have tried to return it or get it replaced first. And buying sight unseen invokes Caveat emptor.

This is just more soap box grandstanding.
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I am really curious as to why the tower IS in the wrong spot, what happened that caused this when the Clix mini has it in the proper location?


I'm just going to chop off the bridge and rotate it 90 degree's to make it right on my Kronos, seems pretty straight forward.
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Trueflight Silverwing
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You are comparing a 3d render to an actual physical model. They always show 3d renders to promote things. If anything, I'm more upset that they used the B'Moth's incorrect model of the ship (the one with the tower rotated 90') than the correct model that most of the Tactics D7 ships had. There were like 5 different D7 ships in Tactics and they had to pick the one that was modeled wrong to make the molds for Attack Wing?
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Christopher Barnette
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Considering how good the game is, and how much effort HAS been put into making Attack Wing stand out and shine as a system, I would like to protest that a post like this one makes us players look petty and ungrateful. Is there a point to make? Yes, perhaps there is, but there's a better way to make it:

"Dear Wizkids, you've made a game that I want to stand up and support with the weight of my voice, and my capital. As a supporter, I wish to add my voice to those who would like to see the model quality more closely resemble that of Fantasy Flight's X-Wing". We understand that scale remains an open question, but the inclusion of a wash to accentuate each model's existing level of detail seems an acceptable compromise. Thanks very much, and keep up the good work."

Was that so hard?
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C. E. Freeman
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tophersinister wrote:
Considering how good the game is, and how much effort HAS been put into making Attack Wing stand out and shine as a system, I would like to protest that a post like this one makes us players look petty and ungrateful. Is there a point to make? Yes, perhaps there is, but there's a better way to make it:

"Dear Wizkids, you've made a game that I want to stand up and support with the weight of my voice, and my capital. As a supporter, I wish to add my voice to those who would like to see the model quality more closely resemble that of Fantasy Flight's X-Wing". We understand that scale remains an open question, but the inclusion of a wash to accentuate each model's existing level of detail seems an acceptable compromise. Thanks very much, and keep up the good work."

Was that so hard?


While I would use your tone, even if I used another tone I would send Whizkids an email, not start a thread on BGG. That is just me, clearly many others would go with a different approach. This is definitely not the first thread of its type we've seen.
 
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Lester Gash
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How does one send Wizkids an email? Not been able to find a generic customer service/contact email.
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Christopher Barnette
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One of the game designers is an active participant on this forum. Like as not, the message has been received.
 
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Scott Kelly
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When I read this thread and what people are saying, I immediately thought of Princess Bride.



False advertising and fraud are VERY strong words to use. In order for you to have fraud:
Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.


For argument's sake, say you have 1 and 2. You have to prove intent, which no one here can. The wrong picture was probably a simple mistake, perhaps done by a marketing person...at no point anything malicious to steal your money. If that was the intent, they'd cover the package until people bought it. They would have sent the off-white-colored preview model to Tom Vasel for his review video.

Also, in order for anyone here to be completely and utterly p***ed about False Advertising and Fraud, you have to be duped and damaged by it. No one has unwittingly purchased this product, so you haven't been damaged. You know what you are buying when you look at the package.

What people are doing with statements like that is the equivalent of calling your spouse a cheater because they didn't answer a text message you sent within 5 minutes. It was probably a simple mistake that people are getting their panties all in a bunch over.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you're mad about the color, do this. Get $3 and buy some miniature paint the equivalent of a Dull Gull Grey or Grey/White. Get some cheap super fine brushes from Hobby Lobby for $2. Repaint the entire green mini that white/grey color. You can probably get away with not even primering it. If you want to go even more pro, get a $2 bottle of Matte-Finish lacquer to protect the new paint. It'd be quicker than nonstop whining.
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Purple Paladin

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Based on the "picture" of the TOS Enterprise Wiz Kids published, I had the game store near me order one for me. Of course, when they got it, I was shocked that it looked almost nothing like the picture.

Not surprised about the OP post either. :/
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Scott Kelly
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How often does food you order at a restaurant or buy in a grocery store look like the commercials? Absolutely never, and that "deception" as people are saying is tremendously worse than anything with this game.
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Look at that false advertising. The Direction wheel is real life is way bigger and has actual mass! The captain token in real life has perspective! This picture clearly is aimed towards getting us to believe that if we buy this product, our reality will be forever altered and physics will no longer exist!

False Advertising! Fraud! I will have my pound of Tribble!!!

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Don D.
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Chance Gardener wrote:
No, they would not be. For one thing, they would need to have tried to return it or get it replaced first. And buying sight unseen invokes Caveat emptor.

This is just more soap box grandstanding.


and

drscottkelly wrote:
When I read this thread and what people are saying, I immediately thought of Princess Bride.



False advertising and fraud are VERY strong words to use. In order for you to have fraud:
Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.


For argument's sake, say you have 1 and 2. You have to prove intent, which no one here can. The wrong picture was probably a simple mistake, perhaps done by a marketing person...at no point anything malicious to steal your money. If that was the intent, they'd cover the package until people bought it. They would have sent the off-white-colored preview model to Tom Vasel for his review video.

Also, in order for anyone here to be completely and utterly p***ed about False Advertising and Fraud, you have to be duped and damaged by it. No one has unwittingly purchased this product, so you haven't been damaged. You know what you are buying when you look at the package.

What people are doing with statements like that is the equivalent of calling your spouse a cheater because they didn't answer a text message you sent within 5 minutes. It was probably a simple mistake that people are getting their panties all in a bunch over.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you're mad about the color, do this. Get $3 and buy some miniature paint the equivalent of a Dull Gull Grey or Grey/White. Get some cheap super fine brushes from Hobby Lobby for $2. Repaint the entire green mini that white/grey color. You can probably get away with not even primering it. If you want to go even more pro, get a $2 bottle of Matte-Finish lacquer to protect the new paint. It'd be quicker than nonstop whining.


With all due respect to both of you, you are wrong. Dr. Kelly, I have seen your posts on other subjects which you are an expert in and have very much appreciated your analysis on those subjects. This is not one of those subjects. This is a subject I am an expert in as a member of the faculty at The University of Miami and published author on law. I could win a case against wiz kids for misrepresentation - there are, in fact multiple forms of misrepresentation in addition to the one form you defined above. I could also VERY easily win a case for unilateral mistake of fact against Wizkids. The fact pattern I offered above is a textbook example of unilateral mistake.

Not to say that this bothers me, because it doesn't. I love the game and think the models are fine. If I were Wizkids general counsel though, I would tell them to cut the crap or risk litigation that they will lose.

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Evan
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gordash wrote:
The Direction wheel is real life is way bigger and has actual mass! The captain token in real life has perspective!


That's what happens when you photograph a ship at warp...
 
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C. E. Freeman
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dond80 wrote:
Chance Gardener wrote:
No, they would not be. For one thing, they would need to have tried to return it or get it replaced first. And buying sight unseen invokes Caveat emptor.

This is just more soap box grandstanding.


and

drscottkelly wrote:
When I read this thread and what people are saying, I immediately thought of Princess Bride.



False advertising and fraud are VERY strong words to use. In order for you to have fraud:
Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.


For argument's sake, say you have 1 and 2. You have to prove intent, which no one here can. The wrong picture was probably a simple mistake, perhaps done by a marketing person...at no point anything malicious to steal your money. If that was the intent, they'd cover the package until people bought it. They would have sent the off-white-colored preview model to Tom Vasel for his review video.

Also, in order for anyone here to be completely and utterly p***ed about False Advertising and Fraud, you have to be duped and damaged by it. No one has unwittingly purchased this product, so you haven't been damaged. You know what you are buying when you look at the package.

What people are doing with statements like that is the equivalent of calling your spouse a cheater because they didn't answer a text message you sent within 5 minutes. It was probably a simple mistake that people are getting their panties all in a bunch over.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you're mad about the color, do this. Get $3 and buy some miniature paint the equivalent of a Dull Gull Grey or Grey/White. Get some cheap super fine brushes from Hobby Lobby for $2. Repaint the entire green mini that white/grey color. You can probably get away with not even primering it. If you want to go even more pro, get a $2 bottle of Matte-Finish lacquer to protect the new paint. It'd be quicker than nonstop whining.


With all due respect to both of you, you are wrong. Dr. Kelly, I have seen your posts on other subjects which you are an expert in and have very much appreciated your analysis on those subjects. This is not one of those subjects. This is a subject I am an expert in as a member of the faculty at The University of Miami and published author on law. I could win a case against wiz kids for misrepresentation - there are, in fact multiple forms of misrepresentation in addition to the one form you defined above. I could also VERY easily win a case for unilateral mistake of fact against Wizkids. The fact pattern I offered above is a textbook example of unilateral mistake.

Not to say that this bothers me, because it doesn't. I love the game and think the models are fine. If I were Wizkids general counsel though, I would tell them to cut the crap or risk litigation that they will lose.



Would it cost more to litigate than would be awarded if it was won? I would think there would not be much in the way of damages to award. Just curious.
 
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Charlie Theel
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drscottkelly wrote:
How often does food you order at a restaurant or buy in a grocery store look like the commercials? Absolutely never, and that "deception" as people are saying is tremendously worse than anything with this game.


Perhaps Wizkids should realize they are competing with companies like FFG, Z-Man, and Wizards of the Coast.

Next time you're hungry don't fall for the WizKids marketing, go to Wendy's instead.
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The damages would be enormous! At least the cost of returning the unopened ship.

What a joke. The packaging of this product is in no way designed to deceive.
 
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Brian Compton
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Rules lawyers are bad enough and now this...

Don, keep in mind that not everyone lives here in Florida, so they may not be accustomed to the potential of the legal system.

On a serious note, removing the hyperbole, we can all agree that the original question was literally answered:

Question - Why the mistake of pre-release material not matching the production product.

Answer - These things happen. Probably because the wrong artwork was used (and there are very many reasons for that).

I also believe that the original post contained some venting that went a little overboard.
 
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