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Age of Renaissance» Forums » Variants

Subject: crusades rss

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Jason Johns
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From reading articles on this website, it seems like Venice is usually in the lead for winning followed by Barcelona and Genoa. Is this the case?

If so I wondered about a small change that COULD help. Any comments are welcome. How about this?

In a 3 player game, no change.
In a 4 player game, Venice cannot play the Crusades.

In a 5 player game, neither Venice, nor Bacelona or Genoa (not sure which is "more likely to win) can play the Crusades.
OR
In a 5 player game, neither Venice, nor Bacelona, nor Genoa can play the Crusades.

In a 6 player game, neither Venice, nor Bacelona, nor Genoa can play the Crusades.

The Crusades can be held by a player who cannot play it (by paying misery as needed) until the end of the period, WHEN it must be discarded and resuffled (if not played).

Well, what do you think? Will this help? I wonder if it could help the slow scoring northerners.

As I said, any thoughts welcome.

Jason Johns
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Petri Savola
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Do you use the eurorules?

In my opinion the crusades card is not broken. It gives a slight advantage, but the player playing crusades will be an obvious target for civil war and alchemist's gold the following turn(s), so it will balance the situation quite well. I'd much rather draw civil war than the crusades to ensure that card will not hit me.

Besides, I don't know why the northern powers are considered so weak that they would deserve such a handicap. I'd rather choose any of them than Genoa. Genoa has potential, but almost always has to struggle against Venice and Barcelona - resulting a horrible game. The provinces near Genoan homeland require too many tokens and stones are not good source of income.
 
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George Van Voorn
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Well, the thing with AoR is that cards ARE powerful and a bad hand can really slow down any progress on your part, while a few good cards to nail others can really hurt. To be honest, in my opinion, you cannot balance the game by forbidding players to play a card. Also, I would think, the Northern countries can play Crusades just as easily as the Southern nations.

My first question is: do you use the updated map board? I don't remember the link but you can find it here in one of the forum threads.

Secondly, if you want things to be balanced it would be more logical and historically correct if a shift of balance would occur during the game. In the early Middle Ages power lay with the Sourthern nations, while later during the MA power shifted to the north. Trade in the Meditteranean got less lucrative because of Mongol and Turkish conquests, severing the Silk Routes. As a result, in the North, trade with the Baltic States intensified.

Also, what misses in the game a little bit is the Arabian occupation of Southern Spain and the presence of the Byzantines in Naples, Sicily and the Levant in the early Middle Ages. Maybe an idea for balancing the game is that in the first rounds Barcelona and the Italians need more armies to (re)conquer those territories (say +1?!). Only after round 4, say, these areas revert to the standard values depicted on the map board. As such, it would mimic the Reconquista and the diminishing power of the Byzantines better.

Just an idea.
 
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Greg Low
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iamspamus wrote:
From reading articles on this website, it seems like Venice is usually in the lead for winning followed by Barcelona and Genoa. Is this the case?


Don't believe everything you read (this included). Statistics are a tricky thing. They don't lie necessarily, but you must know what the statistics refer to. How many epocs are these games? Are all of them three epoc games, or is it a mix of all? Barcelona looks great in a one epoc game, but looks rough in a three epoc game.

Are the players experianced? Rookie players often play alchemists gold at the wrong time on the wrong person. A veteran will generally hit the leader. Rookies can't even tell who the leader is.

iamspamus wrote:
If so I wondered about a small change that COULD help. Any comments are welcome. How about this?

In a 3 player game, no change.
In a 4 player game, Venice cannot play the Crusades.
In a 5 player game, neither Venice, nor Bacelona or Genoa (not sure which is "more likely to win) can play the Crusades.


Besides my earlier contention that the "fix" is based on a false problem, I wouldn't support this fix. The Crusades card is only a minor help for Venice, because Venice can already reach the East. The card speeds Venice up, but doesn't change much. If Venice is holding the card, they are still ensured that nobody else will join them in the East anytime soon.

When I draw the crusades as a first card, I want to play a Northern power. Why? Because my home in the North is under little pressure, while Venice, Genoa, and Barcelona generally lose at home to excel in the East.

This restriction would do little, other than limit the complex number of ways with which the game could play out.

Try it out and report back, but I'd make sure you had enough plays with the normal rules before you change the rules.

-Greg
 
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Jason Johns
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Quote:
When I draw the crusades as a first card, I want to play a Northern power. Why? Because my home in the North is under little pressure, while Venice, Genoa, and Barcelona generally lose at home to excel in the East.



Except with the new rules, it is discarded BEFORE the initial draw and then added back.


Quote:
Try it out and report back, but I'd make sure you had enough plays with the normal rules before you change the rules.

-Greg


I probably won't to be honest. No one seemed to think that it was needed and I only play this VERY infrequently, so...

Thanks for the comments though.
Jason
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