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Subject: Question on post-combat colonisng rss

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Crian
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After playing my first proper game of Eclipse, I have one question.
The situation is as follows.
Player A owns a hex.
Player B sends in some marauding spaceships.
Player B wins the combat (if any), and kills player A's population.
This removes Player A's influence disc.
Player B can immediately place their influence disc.

Now, the question:
Can player B immediately use their colony ships to populate their new hex, or does player B need to wait until their next turn?
 
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Christoph M.
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If he still has unused colony ships, he can use them.

it's in the rules, iirc in the combat section
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Radosław Michalak
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RULES

Answer is on top of page 24.
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Crian
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Radziol wrote:
RULES

Answer is on top of page 24.


Thanks.
I missed that in my hurried 'oh crap, I don't know what happens'. We went with waiting until the next turn, but we will know better for next time!
 
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Steve
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This is one thing that has led to the complaint of unthematic-ness, in that the same planet can produce twice in a turn, since killed population are put in the holding area before being returned to the production track, hence producing for both the original owner and the new.
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Radosław Michalak
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slashing wrote:
This is one thing that has led to the complaint of unthematic-ness, in that the same planet can produce twice in a turn, since killed population are put in the holding area before being returned to the production track, hence producing for both the original owner and the new.

So what?
 
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Steve
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Radziol wrote:
slashing wrote:
This is one thing that has led to the complaint of unthematic-ness, in that the same planet can produce twice in a turn, since killed population are put in the holding area before being returned to the production track, hence producing for both the original owner and the new.

So what?

Trying to guess why you posted such a short question, but...

Thematic disconnects like this are one of the barriers to rules learning. It doesn't "make sense" that a planet can produce twice in a single turn, so people often make rules misinterpretations as a result.

In other words, this is a common misunderstanding; just because it's in the rules, doesn't mean it's easy to learn or remember.
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Radosław Michalak
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slashing wrote:
Radziol wrote:
slashing wrote:
This is one thing that has led to the complaint of unthematic-ness, in that the same planet can produce twice in a turn, since killed population are put in the holding area before being returned to the production track, hence producing for both the original owner and the new.

So what?

Trying to guess why you posted such a short question, but...

Thematic disconnects like this are one of the barriers to rules learning. It doesn't "make sense" that a planet can produce twice in a single turn, so people often make rules misinterpretations as a result.

In other words, this is a common misunderstanding; just because it's in the rules, doesn't mean it's easy to learn or remember.

You have two simple rules:
-you can colonise after combat phase
-population killed in combat goes to graveyards

Theme has nothing to do here (and both rules doesn't look unthematic).
 
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Seth
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Aside from it being rude, judging from the grammar you used in your post you don't have any right calling other people stupid.
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David Hutton
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slashing wrote:


Thematic disconnects like this are one of the barriers to rules learning. It doesn't "make sense" that a planet can produce twice in a single turn, so people often make rules misinterpretations as a result.



I thought exactly the same thing (not an issue with rules, just the sense of a planet being able to produce twice in the same turn) but then a friend pointed out that my interpretation only held true if either

a) the resource was depleted and then regenerated each turn, or
b) it takes the planet population the entire unit of time that the turn lasts to produce whatever that unit is

He then went on to say that it made just as much if not more sense in "real-world" terms to be able to produce twice. Say the original owners population meets their quota of ore or whatever for the turn (assume we're talking at least a week per turn if not more as you can build a structure, colonise a planet, explore a region etc, even a month. Then they get invaded and the new owners want some of that sweet sweet resource so the first thing they do is ship in some labour to produce their own quota

Totally talking semantics now, but just thought I would share as the concept may help get around some of those awkward "but how can they do this again this turn" moments...
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Radosław Michalak
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ATT_Turan wrote:
Aside from it being rude, judging from the grammar you used in your post you don't have any right calling other people stupid.

People consider me rude sometimes. I know that.
If someone can't understand simple thing, then he's stupid. That's a fact.

What problem do you have with my grammar?
 
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Hendrik R
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Humans are not computers that store rules in digital form on a hard disk. We are substantially better at remembering things that have some kind of story or meaning in them over remembering meaningless stuff such as telephone numbers or address lists.

So yes, even though it's a rather simple rule, having the story behind it make sense facilitates memorizing the rule. And while having the same planet produce twice in a turn is not beyond thematic explanations, it's also not automatic.

Also, being used to people calling you rude doesn't make it any better.
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James Motz
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I think there's a post a while ago about the designers deciding that it was too harsh on the losing player to get kicked out of the hex AND lose the production that turn. The "graveyard for cubes" concept is a relatively late addition that was meant to address balance, not thematic plausibility.

I suppose if you wanted to play super-violent-hard-core Eclipse, you could just bounce the cubes back to the track. I think it's super rough on the losing side.

The graveyard is somewhat difficult to explain to new players... so just mention it and move on. Then help people remember when it comes up during the game.
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Rafael Ramus
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WOW...

I say don't feed the troll.

Better let it starve.
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Radosław Michalak
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Furunkel wrote:
Humans are not computers that store rules in digital form on a hard disk. We are substantially better at remembering things that have some kind of story or meaning in them over remembering meaningless stuff such as telephone numbers or address lists.

So yes, even though it's a rather simple rule, having the story behind it make sense facilitates memorizing the rule. And while having the same planet produce twice in a turn is not beyond thematic explanations, it's also not automatic.

Killed population goes to graveyard. Thematic?
You have unused ship which may transport your people after your army did its job. Thematic?

Also double production is not mentioned explicitly in rules, so it's not one of things people should learn as a rule.
Quote:
Also, being used to people calling you rude doesn't make it any better.

I know.
I'm honest man who tells everything explicitly. I hate liars, not those who tell me the truth.
And I won't change just because many people prefer something else.
 
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Liam
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Moved from General to Rules.
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Brian B
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If you consider each turn is supposed to be like dozens(hundreds?) of years or more then thematically you could think the side who once owned the hex sent resources over multiple years, you are simply now getting those resources for use on a galactic scale. The side who conquers the hex is going full steam into getting resources out of their new sector to pay for the invasion thus over years gets enough resources through sheer hard work/tax that the sector "double produces" and they get their goods to further their galactic empire. Things then settle down to prevent revolt and the sector produces "normally" again for the new empire.

You may also consider that you only see a few representative planets where the population is killed, but there are perhaps dozens or hundreds of other planets and that conquering empire may enslave the citizens of the previous empire to use as hard labor to get the goods for that turn, creating the "double production", the slaves then die off and the sectors production is run "normally" as in the rest of the empire.
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