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Subject: House Rules? rss

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boyce mcclellan
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I was just wondering what house rules people play with.


After playing memoir for years, I have to say, I like TOI's system overall, but after having my a** handed to me on the 1st scenario multiple times (I WILL win as the germans) I can see there are some things lacking.

What house rules do you all use?
 
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Hss Hss
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This is one of the major issues with ToI. Many of the scenarios is sadly broken, including the opening scenario.

I suggest to do some research first and only play the well balanced good scenarios. I found 'Silence the guns' to be fun and balanced. And there are lots of others. Both fan made and in different expansions.
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Kristopher
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I think, technically according to the rules, you are supposed to announce what you are planning on doing with your units ahead of time, and then ask at every hex whether or not Op Fire is occurring on that unit. Whenever I've played it, we tend to just talk our strategy outloud and then assume Op Fire will be taken at the best optimal time. Not really a house rule per se, but just how I've ended up playing...
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mark selleck
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[q="Grand Stone"]This is one of the major issues with ToI. Many of the scenarios is sadly broken, including the opening scenario.

q]

This is one of the reasons I was driven away from TOI (I liked the minis, and the rules though I always felt vehicles were treated much more simply than infantry) I would setup a scenario with a friend and discover that is was broken or there was missing information with made it unplayable, there went our gaming night. This was happening too many times. now and again we would have a good game but it was getting frustrating with the amount of really bad scenarios, it was getting to be a lucky dip and we were wasting gaming nights. In the end I left TOI and started playing the lock n load series as my new tactical war game and I have yet to have a bad scenario (the rules are a bit deeper but I picked it up pretty quick as it just seemed to make sense)

If you search through the forums you will find many house rules as I remember a lot being posted over the last couple of years.
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Hugh J Jones
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We house rule that light vehicles can be the target of suppression attacks, we did this since the M10 in Normandy has this trait and we though, well if it can be suppressed then trucks and half tracks should be able to be as well.

The errata post Normandy expansion says that the STUG and Jagdpanzer are supposed to have one less armor a piece, which is kind of dumb as it makes the STUG completely identical to the Panzer IV. We play where the turreted vehicles keep their one higher armor (low profile) but get -3 MP instead of -2 when doing a move and shoot action. We used the no move and shoot allowed for turret-less vehicles rule that's popular on the web for a couple years but it just hindered them too much; they were never moving ever in a game.

Finally we also play where trucks may not spot for area attacks and do not switch control of objective and control markers unless they have passengers.
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Chris Hillery
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The only "house rules" I can think of have involved interpreting the line of sight rules from hills, and only because after all this time I'm still not sure of the correct rule. In particular we tend not to assume that buildings and trees are infinitely tall, as the rules would seem to indicate for two units sitting on raised terrain with intervening blocking terrain.
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Hss Hss
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If you are interested, I can give you a list of scenarios which I have played which I find good.
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Giannis Chorinos
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Grand Stone wrote:
If you are interested, I can give you a list of scenarios which I have played which I find good.


You will help a lot if you give us the list with balanced scenarios that you have played.
 
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Hss Hss
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Here is my list of scenarios I have played and are 100% certain are balanced and good.

Main game:
---
Silence The guns

Days of the Fox:
---
Operation Crusade
Fall of Tobruk

Normandy:
--
Red Devil at Breville (most fun for the attacker I guess, but I'm sure the germans can win)

Design Series:
---
The Twin villages (I won this scenario with 0 units left on the board)
Bloddy Lindern (great scenario)
Night hunt (great scenario)
New Mission (great scenario)
Gela Beachhead (but more fun for the Germans)
To Save Bastogne (great scenario, one of my favorite)

From
http://www.brummbar44.com/battles/

Worthington Force
Bridgehead Bretteville

In addition you have
-Tiger hunt

which is famous for being a good well introduction scenario, which can be found here on BSG.

These are the scenarios I can guarantee is more or less balanced. There are other scenarios out there which looks promising, but these are the ones I can personal guarantee are well balanced.
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Giannis Chorinos
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Thanks a lot. I will try them starting from this weekend.

My favorite scenario (from about 20 I have play) is "road to ruin" official scenario from FFG site.
 
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Kristopher
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Another house rule my friend has been pushing is to give the infantry at least 1 defense die, even of caught out in the open. Seems more realistic as they could drop prone, and hide behide rocks or something, even in an open field.

Haven't used it yet, but it's an idea.
 
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Chris Hillery
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Grand Stone wrote:
which can be found here on BSG.

Frakkin' toaster.

I'd also add "Hell Week" from the Designer Series book. That one often seems to start like a rollover for one side or the other, but the shifts of fortune are great and it always comes down to the last couple actions to decide the winner. Great fun for both sides.
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Paul Leigh
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With regard to scenario balance, the best way for me is to play each one twice and swap sides. That way you can compare the endings.

I quite like the odd lack of balance in a scenario. That way, a veteran players can introduce a newbie and level the playing field a bit, or someone could just be a glutton for punishment and perhaps have serious gloating rights after a win.
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Rafael Ramus
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trouvere wrote:
With regard to scenario balance, the best way for me is to play each one twice and swap sides. That way you can compare the endings.

I quite like the odd lack of balance in a scenario. That way, a veteran players can introduce a newbie and level the playing field a bit, or someone could just be a glutton for punishment and perhaps have serious gloating rights after a win.


I think this would be quite ok if there was a note telling you that BEFORE you play the scenario - and if this was the case of just a minority of the avaiable scenarios.

The game is already too demanding of one's time and effort. Thinking about balance everytime you want to play a new scenario is quite bothersome, at least to me.
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boyce mcclellan
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These are all great inputs.

I can't agree more with the 1 die for infantry out in the open.

Also, there definitely needs to be a rule about smoke, or a special ability for mortar units or something.

We played the first scenario again tonight and I think the lopsided-ness comes from the americans having the reinforcement deck.

I think we are going to move on to other scenarios now. I really like the system. After years of being frustrated with the Memoir system, I really like the added detail of this game. I have about 100 games that use counters but I don't think any of my friends are too keen on playing them. They like the mini's so this is probably the most in depth tactical game we will play.
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Willem Boersma
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Grand Stone wrote:
Here is my list of scenarios I have played and are 100% certain are balanced and good.

Main game:
---
Silence The guns

Days of the Fox:
---
Operation Crusade
Fall of Tobruk

Normandy:
--
Red Devil at Breville (most fun for the attacker I guess, but I'm sure the germans can win)

Design Series:
---
The Twin villages (I won this scenario with 0 units left on the board)
Bloddy Lindern (great scenario)
Night hunt (great scenario)
New Mission (great scenario)
Gela Beachhead (but more fun for the Germans)
To Save Bastogne (great scenario, one of my favorite)

From
http://www.brummbar44.com/battles/

Worthington Force
Bridgehead Bretteville

In addition you have
-Tiger hunt

which is famous for being a good well introduction scenario, which can be found here on BSG.

These are the scenarios I can guarantee is more or less balanced. There are other scenarios out there which looks promising, but these are the ones I can personal guarantee are well balanced.


Some more which I can vouch for 100%:

Days of the Fox:

The last scenario in the booklet

Normandy:

Omaha beach (though it is very unhistorical in the sense that the US infantry, rather than getting off the beach asap or at least going to the ground, they use combined fire against the bunkers rather standard on the first round of play)

Fan-made:

The one that won the FFG scenario contest: Blood on the mountain. Actually most of those were pretty good, but this one was truly
excellent!

From brummbär's site (See above post):

* Factory fortresses (my own scenario. Balanced and fun but perhaps not for a releative newcomer to TOI).

* The one with the winter maps and the two Königstigers (Peiper in the Ardennes, can't think of scenario's title atm). Great scenario as well!Actually all scenario's at brummbär's site, I can vouch for!

What's really noticeable, and a great shame as far as I'm concerned is that as far as I know Fury of the Bear doesn't have a single well-balanced scenario, which is truly a shame because the expansion has great additions to the game: Russian units, trenches etc. and for me most importantly winter boards.

Fortunately 1A has expressed its clear intention to fix clearly broken scenarios out there.

For what its worth, I agree with Hss that "To save Bastogne" is probably the best available official scenario out there (from the designer series campaign book).
 
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Willem Boersma
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Lhowser wrote:
Another house rule my friend has been pushing is to give the infantry at least 1 defense die, even of caught out in the open. Seems more realistic as they could drop prone, and hide behide rocks or something, even in an open field.

Haven't used it yet, but it's an idea.


I believe that's an optional rule (though minutely different)in the Stalingrad expansion: cautious movement. (See the Stalingrad rules posted on BGG).
 
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Willem Boersma
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boyce1981 wrote:
These are all great inputs.

I can't agree more with the 1 die for infantry out in the open.

Also, there definitely needs to be a rule about smoke, or a special ability for mortar units or something.

We played the first scenario again tonight and I think the lopsided-ness comes from the americans having the reinforcement deck.

I think we are going to move on to other scenarios now. I really like the system. After years of being frustrated with the Memoir system, I really like the added detail of this game. I have about 100 games that use counters but I don't think any of my friends are too keen on playing them. They like the mini's so this is probably the most in depth tactical game we will play.


You may be right that just getting rid off the US reinforcement deck might be enough to balance the scenario. At the very least it'd go a long way!
 
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Kristopher
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boyce1981 wrote:


Also, there definitely needs to be a rule about smoke, or a special ability for mortar units or something.


Check the files section for the Rules Clarification Document. That should clear up any troubles with the Smoke rules.
 
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Günther
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I once posted a document in which I gathered other users' opinions about scenario balance and possible fixes. (Base game only.)
You can find it here: TOI Scenario Overview
 
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Chris Hillery
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See also the Geeklists on scenario balance for the base game and each expansion - here's the base game, and the description contains links to the others. It's a good resource, although a number of expansion scenarios have no comments and it looks like Fury of the Bear was never done...
 
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Hss Hss
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Yes there are many good comments about the scenarios, and the best way to go. I have had much more fun once I stopped playing random scenarios but only the ones I thought were balanced.

The reinforcement deck is in general a very powerful one, and a major thing which is very well part of balance, especially if there are enough command points out there. I would judge that reinforcements and supplies are the two strongest command decks out there.
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Hss Hss
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... and using said strategy deck should be added into the mix when judging its balance. I find the decks them self are nice and fun, but only if they don't contribute to the overall unbalance of the scenario.
 
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Hss Hss
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boersma8 wrote:
Grand Stone wrote:
Here is my list of scenarios I have played and are 100% certain are balanced and good.

Main game:
---
Silence The guns

Days of the Fox:
---
Operation Crusade
Fall of Tobruk

Normandy:
--
Red Devil at Breville (most fun for the attacker I guess, but I'm sure the germans can win)

Design Series:
---
The Twin villages (I won this scenario with 0 units left on the board)
Bloddy Lindern (great scenario)
Night hunt (great scenario)
New Mission (great scenario)
Gela Beachhead (but more fun for the Germans)
To Save Bastogne (great scenario, one of my favorite)

From
http://www.brummbar44.com/battles/

Worthington Force
Bridgehead Bretteville

In addition you have
-Tiger hunt

which is famous for being a good well introduction scenario, which can be found here on BSG.

These are the scenarios I can guarantee is more or less balanced. There are other scenarios out there which looks promising, but these are the ones I can personal guarantee are well balanced.


Some more which I can vouch for 100%:

Days of the Fox:

The last scenario in the booklet

Normandy:

Omaha beach (though it is very unhistorical in the sense that the US infantry, rather than getting off the beach asap or at least going to the ground, they use combined fire against the bunkers rather standard on the first round of play)

Fan-made:

The one that won the FFG scenario contest: Blood on the mountain. Actually most of those were pretty good, but this one was truly
excellent!

From brummbär's site (See above post):

* Factory fortresses (my own scenario. Balanced and fun but perhaps not for a releative newcomer to TOI).

* The one with the winter maps and the two Königstigers (Peiper in the Ardennes, can't think of scenario's title atm). Great scenario as well!Actually all scenario's at brummbär's site, I can vouch for!

What's really noticeable, and a great shame as far as I'm concerned is that as far as I know Fury of the Bear doesn't have a single well-balanced scenario, which is truly a shame because the expansion has great additions to the game: Russian units, trenches etc. and for me most importantly winter boards.

Fortunately 1A has expressed its clear intention to fix clearly broken scenarios out there.

For what its worth, I agree with Hss that "To save Bastogne" is probably the best available official scenario out there (from the designer series campaign book).


And personaly I trust Willem's judgement


There is one scnearo from Fury of the bear which I do suspect is balanced:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/657320/custom-scenario-encou...

But its not jet not published as a pdf.
 
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Willem Boersma
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Grand Stone wrote:
boersma8 wrote:
Grand Stone wrote:
Here is my list of scenarios I have played and are 100% certain are balanced and good.

Main game:
---
Silence The guns

Days of the Fox:
---
Operation Crusade
Fall of Tobruk

Normandy:
--
Red Devil at Breville (most fun for the attacker I guess, but I'm sure the germans can win)

Design Series:
---
The Twin villages (I won this scenario with 0 units left on the board)
Bloddy Lindern (great scenario)
Night hunt (great scenario)
New Mission (great scenario)
Gela Beachhead (but more fun for the Germans)
To Save Bastogne (great scenario, one of my favorite)

From
http://www.brummbar44.com/battles/

Worthington Force
Bridgehead Bretteville

In addition you have
-Tiger hunt

which is famous for being a good well introduction scenario, which can be found here on BSG.

These are the scenarios I can guarantee is more or less balanced. There are other scenarios out there which looks promising, but these are the ones I can personal guarantee are well balanced.


Some more which I can vouch for 100%:

Days of the Fox:

The last scenario in the booklet

Normandy:

Omaha beach (though it is very unhistorical in the sense that the US infantry, rather than getting off the beach asap or at least going to the ground, they use combined fire against the bunkers rather standard on the first round of play)

Fan-made:

The one that won the FFG scenario contest: Blood on the mountain. Actually most of those were pretty good, but this one was truly
excellent!

From brummbär's site (See above post):

* Factory fortresses (my own scenario. Balanced and fun but perhaps not for a releative newcomer to TOI).

* The one with the winter maps and the two Königstigers (Peiper in the Ardennes, can't think of scenario's title atm). Great scenario as well!Actually all scenario's at brummbär's site, I can vouch for!

What's really noticeable, and a great shame as far as I'm concerned is that as far as I know Fury of the Bear doesn't have a single well-balanced scenario, which is truly a shame because the expansion has great additions to the game: Russian units, trenches etc. and for me most importantly winter boards.

Fortunately 1A has expressed its clear intention to fix clearly broken scenarios out there.

For what its worth, I agree with Hss that "To save Bastogne" is probably the best available official scenario out there (from the designer series campaign book).


And personaly I trust Willem's judgement :D


There is one scnearo from Fury of the bear which I do suspect is balanced:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/657320/custom-scenario-encou...

But its not jet not published as a pdf.


Technically encounter at Dubno isn't an FoTB scenario, but one that uses its components. i took a closer look at it once (printed it out, but have never played it) and it seems it's balanced because each side has almost exactly the same number of units and the objectives are in the middle of the baord. that way anyone could make a scenario balanced. then again, if that was the historical situation at the time (roughly equal forces and the objective smack in the middle, then hey, great!). Don';t get me wrong it's important that it's balanced, but I wouldn't like all new scenarios to pursue this way of achieving balance.
 
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