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Subject: Using a god tile to take a disaster tile? rss

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Kevin Bourrillion
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Believe it or not, a situation came up tonight in which my wife wanted to use her god tile to take a disaster tile. Of course we went for the rulebook. And to our surprise, the rules state that any tile but a RA or a god may be taken and placed in the display area. But to our even deeper surprise, there is no apparent effect of doing this. The section that describes how disaster tiles work specifically says that you have to remove two tiles only "after winning an auction". It says nothing about any effect if you take the disaster with a God tile.

I am pretty sure that the rules are 'broken' in this regard and that either

(a) you are not allowed to take a disaster tile with a god tile, and they just forgot to mention it, OR
(b) you can, and then must resolve the effects of the disaster tile as usual, and they just forgot to mention it

Which of (a) and (b) do you suppose is correct?

And secondly, who can figure out why my wife wanted to do this? :-)

Thanks,
K
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D R
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Hello Kevin,

First, I have a question: did you let your wife use the god tile in this way?

Her idea is brilliant, and smells of chutzpah. I've been playing Ra now for many weeks,
and I thought taking a disaster tile with a god was simply comedy, but now I see I was
wrong. You ask, why would anyone ever want to do this? Here is one scenario:

1. Your wife has a 13 sun, a god, and 2 civilizations.
2. 7 great tiles are showing on the board, and it is your wife's turn. However, one of
the tiles showing is a civilization-killer.
3. It is your wife's turn.

Your wife made the right move. Keep her.

Racasone



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Billy McBoatface
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It does seem inconsistent that disasters kill tiles only when won in auction, not when stolen by a god.

Even if taking the disaster "activated" it, it would still be good to take it sometimes; if you need a flood, and there is a drought and a flood in the auction, you can steal the drought, toss two of your rivers, then win the auction. Yes, you lost two points, but you got your flood. With civilations it can work out just as well - if you have no civs, you take the unrest, then win the auction, and hey! You've got civs! It still isn't 100% consistent since it doesn't eat the auction tiles (maybe it should? But they aren't even yours yet!)

So, for consistency, it seems that the disaster should be activated by the theft...but then again, as the rules are written it is still not an unbalancing effect, so I guess there is no harm in playing it exactly as the rules are written. Clever loophole found by your wife, I'm really impressed!
 
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Steven Chen
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Wow that's incredible. I was cracking my head trying to think of a scenario for the longest time but couldn't lol

Anyway it does make you more conscious of all the many things that can happen during the course of a game. I'm glad I'm not a game designer..
 
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Nick Fisk
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Quote:
if you need a flood, and there is a drought and a flood in the auction, you can steal the drought, toss two of your rivers, then win the auction.


Why not just steal the flood ?

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Billy McBoatface
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Moviebuffs wrote:
Quote:
if you need a flood, and there is a drought and a flood in the auction, you can steal the drought, toss two of your rivers, then win the auction.


Why not just steal the flood ?

Oh! You got me! Right, my suggestion was stupid. It only makes sense to steal a disaster if there are multiple tiles you want, and you just want to ditch the disaster without it eating up the tiles in the auction and/or your current hand.
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Jonathan Tang
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I would rule that the disaster takes effect when you take the tile.
So it is activated the moment a player takes it.
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Brian Morris
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I agree with Jon. If you use the god tile to take a tile, the effect is the same as if you won it in an auction. You can not use the god tile to in effect delete the effects of a disaster tile.
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Steve K
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mrbeankc wrote:
You can not use the god tile to in effect delete the effects of a disaster tile.


So Gods can't prevent acts of God? devil
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Fraser
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I'm with Jonathan too.

Also if you did play as the original poster suggested, you would want anyone else to be still able to be able to outbid you in an auction in that epoch because you would have just made the auction track a whole lot more appealing.
 
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Paul Sauberer
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I've sent an e-mail to Uberplay asking for clarification.

I only have the Rio Grande rules, so I am not sure if it is addressed in Uberplay's rules.

That being said, the Rio Grande rules are pretty clear. Any tile except a God tile can be chosen from the auction track with a God tile. Disaster tiles are activated when they are taken from the auction track after winning an auction. Putting these two together means that disaster tiles are not activated when they are taken with God tiles.

I can see this as making sense. You are using the God tile to mitigate a disaster. However, I can also see this as being an omission in the rules and that disasters should happen whenever they are "won" by a player.

We'll see what Uberplay has to say about it.
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Paulo Soledade
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The way I see it, even if the rules don't say anything clear about it, you should activate the disaster under any circumstances. No matter if the tile comes from an auction or with a god tile. It makes sense to me and when/if that cenario comes along I'll make it a house rule.

Exchanging a god tile for a disaster can be a very clever decision. This is a proof that women are so much clever than we are!!!
 
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Paul Sauberer
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Soledade wrote:
The way I see it, even if the rules don't say anything clear about it, you should activate the disaster under any circumstances. No matter if the tile comes from an auction or with a god tile. It makes sense to me and when/if that cenario comes along I'll make it a house rule.


I, on the other hand, think it makes more thematic sense that if you are calling on the power of a God, that you will do so to get rid of the effects of a disaster. It doesn't make much sense to me to use your limited "pull" with the gods to call a disaster on yourself.

From a gaming point of view I can see it as going either way. That's why I am anxiously awaiting ther esponse from Uberplay.

Quote:
Exchanging a god tile for a disaster can be a very clever decision. This is a proof that women are so much clever than we are!!!


I also can't recall ever seeing this play pulled off and agree that it could be useful whichever way the ruling comes down.
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Chris Bailey
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It sounds like it's only activated if won by auction. Your wife is smart! It makes sense what one of the previous posters said about a God being able to cancel something like that to your benefit.
 
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jttm wrote:
I would rule that the disaster takes effect when you take the tile.
So it is activated the moment a player takes it.


This is how we have always played it. You CAN take a disater with a god BUT you will suffer the effects.
 
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Jay Little
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Very interesting situation. I'd lobby for the letter of the rules here
(which I also think supports the spirit of the rules). Disaster tiles
activate when won via auction. You use a god tile in lieu of calling for
an auction or drawing a new tile, so taking a disaster with a god tile
would NOT activate it.

You're throwing away some points anyway (in exchange for what looks like
a risk that may pay off), so it's not overpowering, and thematically it
makes perfect sense that the god would prevent a drought, earthquake,
etc.

It's a great play, and one that wouldn't come up all that frequently --
I think the poster's wife was incredibly savvy and clever to do it.
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Adam Smiles
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You can take a disaster tile with a god, but the effects are applied when you take it.

The only time you throw tiles away with no effect, is when the lot is full with 8 items and no one bids on the lot.
 
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Paulo Soledade
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Psauberer wrote:
I, on the other hand, think it makes more thematic sense that if you are calling on the power of a God, that you will do so to get rid of the effects of a disaster. It doesn't make much sense to me to use your limited "pull" with the gods to call a disaster on yourself.


What I want to say (my opinion) is that you shouldn't be able to get rid of the disaster. You should only be able to make a tough decision. And that's the beauty of it.

Psauberer wrote:
From a gaming point of view I can see it as going either way. That's why I am anxiously awaiting ther esponse from Uberplay.


I'm also waiting for that response. Anxiously. I hope they agree with me . Tough decisions (rather than obvious) make games so much interesting. Don't they?!
 
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Kevin Bourrillion
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Hallo, original poster again. I'm glad this sparked some discussion and figured you'd like to hear what the scenario in question was.

It was Epoch 3, there was only one Ra space open and she was the only player left with a sun. She had a single civ, and on the auction track were three distinct civs and an "unrest". Invoking Ra wouldn't have netted her any points (she'd have been left with only two civs), yet drawing again was risky as she could draw a Ra (game over). The rules weren't clear as I said, but we went ahead and let her play her god tile to take the unrest, which killed off her existing civilization, then she (of course) immediately invoked Ra and won the trio, to net three points (five minus the lost god).

It didn't win the game for her, but it was fun.

And oh yes, I think I'll keep her. :-)
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Devin Batutis
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I suggest someone try this on BrettspeilWelt. About as "official" as you can get without some sort of edict from Reiner. You might not win the game, but it would be a worthy experiment for the rest of us! laugh

Devin
 
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Billy McBoatface
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dbatutis wrote:
I suggest someone try this on BrettspeilWelt. About as "official" as you can get without some sort of edict from Reiner. You might not win the game, but it would be a worthy experiment for the rest of us! laugh

Devin
BSW starts you at 0 points instead of 10, so I wouldn't say that they are sticklers for the rules.

I just read my Uberplay rules, as reported above, following the letter of the rules: You may take disasters with god tiles. Disasters only take effect when won in auction. Therefore, when you take disasters with god tiles, they sit in your hand, (apparently worth 0 points), but do not "eat" tiles you already won or tiles that have been drawn from the bag.

It's entirely possible that the rules were meant to say otherwise, but by a "strict constructionist" reading, that is what they say.
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Ben Smith
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I just tried this on BSW. The disaster does take effect there. Make of that what you will

Ben
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Carlo Tibaldi
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I have put the question on Alea Spiele forum site (www.aleaspiele.de), the original publisher of the game.

We will see what they answer.

Cheers. Carlo
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Allen Doum
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All this about talk about "strict construction" is fine, but it assumes that the writers of rules are "gods" not capable of missing an exceptional situation.

While it will be interesting to see what the "official" answers are, consider this: What happens to the Disaster tile if it does not take effect? As I see it, the rules don't cover this either way. So that the possibility of taking a Disaster without it taking effect did not occur to the rules writers.

OTOH, if it does take effect, the situation is resolved with the desater discarded.

One of my general rules for making rules interpretations is this: The interpretation that leads to further questions is wrong.

If you can take the tile without it taking effect, that leads to another question: What happens to it.

If it takes effect, the situation is resolved.

Therefore, it takes effect.
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Michael Z
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One thing to note. The poster above who said they would take an auction including a drought tile if it had a flood tile in it they need is not following the rules correctly. Check your rule book. Whenever a drought tile is won in an auction, the winner must remove floods FIRST. This includes any floods they win in the auction.
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