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Subject: Guild favor "bishop", not very clear rss

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James Chan
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The guild favor "Bishop" said that move an action maker to another space .


So my question is if now is phase C building action number 5 that blue player Hv an action maker on this space and ready to perform entering the watch tower, but he has the "Bishop", so he move this action marker BEFORE paying the cost of money and this marker moving from building space number 5 to space number 4, that is already resolved according the sequence.

So can blue player IMMEDIATELY use the building action of space 4 (Casa da Coroa building action) by using this guild favor Bishop ,which is unflipping his other guild favor ?
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James Chan
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actually, to make the question simple, can the bishop carry out the building action that is already revolved just before
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Matthias Nagy
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Hi,

no he cannot. Moving your action marker away only prevents the player from paying and resolving the building action or getting pirates.

The only way to perform a building action outside the regular order is to use Lady and pay 4 Real.
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James Chan
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Thx for answering this,so we discover that only useful with this power when moving forward sequence but less advantages when moving backward sequence
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Christopher Earley
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I'm still unclear on the wording of the Bishop guild favor.

The first paragraph says you can move one of your action markers
to an already resolved, currently being resolved, or still to be
resolved building.

Then the second paragraph says you can't move it to a currently
being resolved building if you don't already have a marker there.

I realize this is because if you don't have a marker there, then
it is technically not your turn and so you can't use a guild favor
when it's not your turn. So then what's the point of placing
another marker in the current space where you already have one?
Just to move it away from a space you don't want it to be in when
it resolves, I guess?


 
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Matthias Nagy
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christophyr wrote:

So then what's the point of placing
another marker in the current space where you already have one?
Just to move it away from a space you don't want it to be in when
it resolves, I guess?


Correct.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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christophyr wrote:
Then the second paragraph says you can't move it to a currently
being resolved building if you don't already have a marker there.

This was/is confusing to me because the rules clearly state that you cannot activate a guild favor when resolving building if you do not have an action marker in the current building. But that rule quote above makes it sound like you could play the guild favor when you don't have any action markers there, but you just can't use it to move action markers there.
 
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Matthias Nagy
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curtc wrote:
christophyr wrote:
Then the second paragraph says you can't move it to a currently
being resolved building if you don't already have a marker there.

This was/is confusing to me because the rules clearly state that you cannot activate a guild favor when resolving building if you do not have an action marker in the current building. But that rule quote above makes it sound like you could play the guild favor when you don't have any action markers there, but you just can't use it to move action markers there.


I'm not a native english speaker, so I'm not sure if this can be read into the sentence, but the rules stay true, that you can't use any favors, if you have no action marker at the current building. The quoted sentence is just a reminder.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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It's very misleading. The actual text says, "A player cannot use this Favor to move an Action Marker into the currently resolved Building if he does not already have an Action Marker on that Building." That implies that if you don't have an action marker on the currently resolved building you can use the guild favor to move an action marker to a different building.

Basically, I think if you wanted to have a reminder, it would have been more clear to just say something like, "Reminder: you must have an action marker on a building to use a guild when taking building actions." I.e. state the same rule, not what looks like a new rule with different implications.
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Matthias Nagy
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curtc wrote:
Basically, I think if you wanted to have a reminder, it would have been more clear to just say something like, "Reminder: you must have an action marker on a building to use a guild when taking building actions." I.e. state the same rule, not what looks like a new rule with different implications.


That happened, as I'm not a native speaker and my brain implies other words when I write text in Englisch.

Sorry for that.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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No worries. For balance, I will say that overall I thought the rulebook was quite good! thumbsup

Looking forward to finally playing my first game tonight! Here's hoping my wee brain can remember everything when I explain the rules. meeple
 
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Dave Eisen
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Good luck with that. It can go either very well or very poorly.

I jotted down some notes at: Anyone working on a teaching script?
 
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Curt Carpenter
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dkeisen wrote:
I jotted down some notes at: Anyone working on a teaching script?

That's good, thanks.

My general strategy with a game like this is to warn that it's extremely long and extremely complex, and extremely random. Then when players play and find out that it's only slightly long, slightly complex, and slightly random, they're pleasantly surprised.
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Horst Timcke
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For understanding (and an additional question):

If you move an Action Marker from the building that is currently resolved, you will not have to pay the costs (or take the pirate there), when it's your only marker -> understood.
If you move it to a building that will be resolved, you can use this at that moment -> understood.
If you move it to a building that already has been resolved, you just prevent paying - no action there -> understood.

Now the question:
If you move an Action Marker from a building that already has been resolved to a building that will be resolved you will get (take part on) one more Building Action, means you can have 4 Building Action -> is this correct?

Thanks and I also find it a great game.
From Tournesol who's also not a native speaker .
 
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Matthias Nagy
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Tournesol wrote:

If you move an Action Marker from a building that already has been resolved to a building that will be resolved you will get (take part on) one more Building Action, means you can have 4 Building Action -> is this correct?


Correct. This works and is intended to work this way.

Tournesol wrote:

Thanks and I also find it a great game.


Big thanks.

Matthias Nagy
from What's Your Game?
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Horst Timcke
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Thanks - this was a real fast answer. (Thumbs up).
Only - by the way - as you are from 'What's Your Game?':
Now in German (concerning the germnan rule):
Nur etwas 'merkwürdig', dass bei den Gildengünsten
- Schatzmeister - Patron - Müller
in der männlichen Form gelassen wurden, obwohl auf den Bildern (eindeutig) Frauen abgebildet sind

Tournesol
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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I am still so confused.

The rules say you can move an action marker to any other building, but that you cannot move an action marker into the "currently resolved building if he does not already have an action marker on that building."

Question 1: I'm a little confused by the term "currently resolved building". The rules for using guild favors say that you would use this tile in Phase C before you pay the cost... which would mean that it would be at a point before the current building has been resolved, at least as I understand English. Does "currently resolved building" mean the building that is in the process of being resolved? If so, this is awkwardly worded.

Question 2: Let's assume that we are in the process of resolving building two and it is time to pay the cost which is when the bishop can be used. However, I do not have an action marker in building two. I am prohibited from moving my action marker from building one into building two at this time, correct?

Question 3: Again, let's say we are in the process of resolving building two and I do not have an action marker in building two. Am I allowed to move an action marker from building one into building three?

Question 3a: Does it matter whether I have an action marker in building three or not?

Question 3b: When we move on to resolve building three, I will have the choice to pay the cost for my action marker to trigger the building bonus action, correct? Even though this action marker was previously used to trigger the building bonus action for building one?
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Thunkd wrote:
The rules say you can move an action marker to any other building, but that you cannot move an action marker into the "currently resolved building if he does not already have an action marker on that building."

Read my comments above (if you haven't already).

Thunkd wrote:
Question 1: I'm a little confused by the term "currently resolved building". The rules for using guild favors say that you would use this tile in Phase C before you pay the cost... which would mean that it would be at a point before the current building has been resolved, at least as I understand English. Does "currently resolved building" mean the building that is in the process of being resolved? If so, this is awkwardly worded.

Buildings are resolved one by one. For each building, players in turn order may carry out the building action of the "currently resolved building". Before carrying out their action, they may choose to use a single guild favor. Yes, it's awkwardly worded.

Thunkd wrote:
Question 2: Let's assume that we are in the process of resolving building two and it is time to pay the cost which is when the bishop can be used. However, I do not have an action marker in building two. I am prohibited from moving my action marker from building one into building two at this time, correct?

If you don't have an action marker in the currently resolved (resolving) building, you may not do anything, including using any guild favors.

Thunkd wrote:
Question 3: Again, let's say we are in the process of resolving building two and I do not have an action marker in building two. Am I allowed to move an action marker from building one into building three?

As per question 2, no.

Thunkd wrote:
Question 3a: Does it matter whether I have an action marker in building three or not?

No

Thunkd wrote:
Question 3b: When we move on to resolve building three, I will have the choice to pay the cost for my action marker to trigger the building bonus action, correct? Even though this action marker was previously used to trigger the building bonus action for building one?

Correct. If a marker is moved, there is no memory/state about where it came from or how it got there.
 
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Dave Eisen
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Thunkd wrote:
I am still so confused.

The rules say you can move an action marker to any other building, but that you cannot move an action marker into the "currently resolved building if he does not already have an action marker on that building."

Question 1: I'm a little confused by the term "currently resolved building". The rules for using guild favors say that you would use this tile in Phase C before you pay the cost... which would mean that it would be at a point before the current building has been resolved, at least as I understand English. Does "currently resolved building" mean the building that is in the process of being resolved? If so, this is awkwardly worded.

Question 2: Let's assume that we are in the process of resolving building two and it is time to pay the cost which is when the bishop can be used. However, I do not have an action marker in building two. I am prohibited from moving my action marker from building one into building two at this time, correct?

Question 3: Again, let's say we are in the process of resolving building two and I do not have an action marker in building two. Am I allowed to move an action marker from building one into building three?

Question 3a: Does it matter whether I have an action marker in building three or not?

Question 3b: When we move on to resolve building three, I will have the choice to pay the cost for my action marker to trigger the building bonus action, correct? Even though this action marker was previously used to trigger the building bonus action for building one?


The rules need not have this clause at all as it is not a new rule. It is an attempt to clarify something which, well, is still not so clear even with it.

But you use the guild favors when it is your turn to do something in phase B or phase C. Your turn in phase C only occurs when you already have an action marker in the building resolved. So for Question 2 you asked, you are prohibited, because it is not your turn. Not because of any special rules.

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Bryan Thunkd
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curtc wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
Question 2: Let's assume that we are in the process of resolving building two and it is time to pay the cost which is when the bishop can be used. However, I do not have an action marker in building two. I am prohibited from moving my action marker from building one into building two at this time, correct?

If you don't have an action marker in the currently resolved (resolving) building, you may not do anything, including using any guild favors.

Thunkd wrote:
Question 3: Again, let's say we are in the process of resolving building two and I do not have an action marker in building two. Am I allowed to move an action marker from building one into building three?

As per question 2, no.

To change this question slightly, if we are in the process of resolving building two and I do have an action marker in building two, I could move an action marker from building one into building three?
 
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Dave Eisen
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Thunkd wrote:

To change this question slightly, if we are in the process of resolving building two and I do have an action marker in building two, I could move an action marker from building one into building three?


You can. Yes. Or from building three to building one.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Thunkd wrote:
To change this question slightly, if we are in the process of resolving building two and I do have an action marker in building two, I could move an action marker from building one into building three?

Yes.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Okay. Got it. The game looks awesome, but the rules could be worded better.
 
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Matthias Nagy
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Hi,

I confirm all the answers by curt and dkeisen.

Thunkd wrote:
Okay. Got it. The game looks awesome, but the rules could be worded better.


I agree that the rules as presented are not 100% perfect. We tried to write the rules and repeated them at several instances to make sure nobody plays it wrong. But I can tell you that we worked on the rulebook for over two month to not rush it and just made a long update this month, which should go online soon (no rules changes only some changes to avoid some confusions), it is still very hard to make it perfect. Especially with this caliber of a game.

But our goal is to never give up, and our next game should have even better worded rules.

Matthias Nagy
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Mike Geller
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darkpact wrote:

But our goal is to never give up, and our next game should have even better worded rules.

Matthias Nagy
from What's Your Game?


I was one who didn't have a big problem in reading and understanding the rule book. When we went to play, however, I found it a nightmare to look anything up. This slowed down an already quite long game session. In the future, an index or table of contents would be greatly appreciated.
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