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Corps Command: Dawn's Early Light» Forums » General

Subject: Rating other tanks rss

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Steve Gaines
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I have thought about using this game as a foundation for my 3mm miniatures. As I have been painting up some Soviet T-64s I was curious how some other units my compare to those in the game. How would the T-64 compare to the basic strength of the T-72 already in the game? What would the addition of British Chieftain and Challenger tanks look like?

Any thoughts?

Steve
 
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Kent Reuber
United States
San Mateo
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You'd have to do some research into the armor and gunnery. If I remember correctly, the T-64 had the same 125mm gun as the T-72. Looking at the counters, though, I don't see a lot of "wiggle room": Soviet tanks seem to have protection ratings of 10, while APCs have protections of 9. Most of the Soviet vehicles have strengths of 3, so there's no wiggle room here either.

If I remember correctly, the Challenger is similar to the Abrams, so I'd suggest it be similarly rated in firepower and protection. I might rate a Chieftain closer to the "Territorial" unit or perhaps just give it a lower initiative number.
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Steve Gaines
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Yes, given the scale of the game and the rating there isn't a lot of wiggle room. I would tend to think that the T-64 and T-72 at this scale would probably be about the same. How to rate the Chieftain is the one that is the biggest guess work for me.
 
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A KAreil
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With the scope of the game - I can hardly imagine playing it with miniatures...


Maybe their http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamefamily/3203/world-at-w... (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamefamily/3203/world-at-w...) would be a better pick?
 
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Matt Jolly
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Steve,

If I remember, Chieftains were very slow, probably had the thickest armour of any contemporary (before the advent of Chobham armour)and were notoriously unreliable. Their 120mm rifled gun was awesome, with great APDS and versatile HESH ammo natures but for much of the time had this coupled with a very poor targeting system (originally a .5" ranging machinegun).

But your problem is the level of the game. The counters are regiments and brigades, and the British units of the time were some of the last to adopt an IFV, with the FV432 in use well into the early 90's. This was similar to the M113 (deliveries of the Warrior IFV, which had no firing ports or mounted ATGW, did not start until 1987-8 and were not complete until the mid 90's).

On the other hand the Swingfire ATGM was one of the heaviest and longest ranged in the western arsenal. British infantry only had semi-automatic rifles which they were trained to aim rather than spray. At this level each counter would probably include some of all of these weapons (as well as many others - my own personal fave the WOMBAT for example) and you would have to fiddle the factors to represent all of these compared with the US, German, Russian (and other British) equivalents.

Back in 1985, the M-1's had L7 105mm guns, which had a significantly lower performance (range, penetration, accuracy) than the British 120mm rifle. The M1 however had a massively superior fire-control system, this more than made up for minor inherent accuracy disadvantages. The M1 outshot the British 120mm in the Canadian Army Gunnery competition in the mid 80s. (note though that this measures only accuracy, and does not reflect the chance of a kill having got the hit...)

Like others, I would suggest that you took a look at World at War: Blood and Bridges as a better thing to use with minis.

On a different tack though, I am surprised that there are so many Challengers in the game: in Spring 1985 (and in fact for the years following) Chieftain was still the standard MBT, and Challengers were rare as hen's teeth. Warrior did not enter service until 1988.

Cheers,

Matt
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Steve Gaines
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I like the scale of this game. I think it will work with my 3mm miniatures. I tend to like the higher level games... Although, I have been tempted to try some of the WW3 series. Thanks for the feedback on the Chieftains... Definitely food for thought.
 
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