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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Prospector level - why? rss

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Jack Swan
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Can anyone explain why the Prospector level us set up the way it is?

First: why not two levels, one for each box?
Second: why would anyone want to pay $75 for a game that will very probably cost less in retail, and certainly for people who need to add shipping (and VAT)?
Third: why no stretch to make it even slightly interesting? FFP could have stretched each box with at least the male/female counterparts and maybe some cards.

As it is now, it is the level I was initially hoping for (a not too expensive way to support the game and try it out later), but implemented in such a way that there is absolutely nothing attractive about it.

My misantrophical side whispers that they don't really want cheap backers. My less gloomy side just wonders why.
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LargeGoblin
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First: why not two levels, one for each box?
I think there is a limit on the number of tiers they can have for a project. This accomplishes the same thing as having two tiers except you don't get to choose now.

Second: why would anyone want to pay $75 for a game that will very probably cost less in retail, and certainly for people who need to add shipping (and VAT)?
Maybe they want to help support development and unlock stretch goals. Maybe they want access to the add-ons. Maybe they even like the art book. Maybe some people are just craaaazy.

Third: why no stretch to make it even slightly interesting? FFP could have stretched each box with at least the male/female counterparts and maybe some cards.
Probably so they can make more money.
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Derek VDG
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Unplugged wrote:
Can anyone explain why the Prospector level us set up the way it is?

First: why not two levels, one for each box?
Second: why would anyone want to pay $75 for a game that will very probably cost less in retail, and certainly for people who need to add shipping (and VAT)?
Third: why no stretch to make it even slightly interesting? FFP could have stretched each box with at least the male/female counterparts and maybe some cards.

As it is now, it is the level I was initially hoping for (a not too expensive way to support the game and try it out later), but implemented in such a way that there is absolutely nothing attractive about it.

My misantrophical side whispers that they don't really want cheap backers. My less gloomy side just wonders why.


1) It's simpler to have a single level and just let the pledge manager know which one you want.There really isn't a reason for having two for essentially the same thing.
2) Each Core Set costs $85 retail. Just because you might be able to get it from an online retailer at lower than that price, does not mean they should alter it. Keep in mind they are also subsidising shipping as part of the level. Plus I believe that FFP already said that you do get some xtras with Prospector (see #3)
3) I am pretty sure that FFP said that Prospectors will get the Variant models (i.e. counterparts) that get unlocked for the classes in their Core Set.

Honestly, though, I am pretty sure that FFP want Outlaw to be what people get the most. Despite being 2 games, FFP really considers them a single game, and thus they want you to get both. So, there isn't a lot of incentive for them to make Prospector extra attractive or give them bonus stuff.
 
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Jack Swan
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dvang wrote:
I am pretty sure that FFP said that Prospectors will get the Variant models (i.e. counterparts) that get unlocked for the classes in their Core Set.


That would be nice indeed! Any source to confirm this?
 
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William W
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dvang wrote:
Despite being 2 games, FFP really considers them a single game, and thus they want you to get both. So, there isn't a lot of incentive for them to make Prospector extra attractive or give them bonus stuff.


It would've been nice for them to sell it as one game then.
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Philipp Ottensamer
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quadraphonic wrote:
dvang wrote:
Despite being 2 games, FFP really considers them a single game, and thus they want you to get both. So, there isn't a lot of incentive for them to make Prospector extra attractive or give them bonus stuff.


It would've been nice for them to sell it as one game then.


My thoughts exactly.
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Michael Johnson
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I agree. More than that, I'm a little put off by the $150 price tag for "one" game. Also, for a company that didn't necessarily need to turn to Kickstarter to fund this game, and who has made 8 times their initial goal (with 31 days left), I am quite surprised by how much they are charging for only the base game and a few relatively minor add ons. (No worries, however, you can get all the content for the low price of $350 dollars!)
 
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Bryan K
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The $150 price tag to get the unlockables is very steep for me. Most Kickstarters I feel like I'm getting somewhat of a deal. This one does not feel like a deal. But, they obviously have an idea people are willing to spend $ on.
 
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David Knepper
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SuperMike3288 wrote:
I agree. More than that, I'm a little put off by the $150 price tag for "one" game. Also, for a company that didn't necessarily need to turn to Kickstarter to fund this game, and who has made 8 times their initial goal (with 31 days left), I am quite surprised by how much they are charging for only the base game and a few relatively minor add ons. (No worries, however, you can get all the content for the low price of $350 dollars!)


Err, that would be $475+ (TBD).
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Derek VDG
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It would've been nice for them to sell it as one game then.

The option to buy the separately is for pricing and consumers. The two games CAN be played standalone. However, you only get 4 classes, for example, in each core set. If you get both, you have 8 classes to choose from. If you only have 1 core set, you only have one set of map tiles and only 1 otherworld that you could run into. If you have both core sets, you have even more map tiles (making a more random map) as well as a second otherworld that you could come across. Plus different monsters and encounters. You add a lot more variety to the game combining the two core sets, rather than playing just one. However, the option is still there for someone who wants to get just one core set ... perhaps because of the $85 price point per Core Set. Simply, $85 for one game is on the high end, but not unreasonable given the quality and the miniatures. Its a lot of more difficult to sell a single $170 boardgame. Not to mention the size of the box containing all the stuff.

As for the value vs the price ... yes it is a steep initial investment. However, if you add up the retail value of all the Stretch Goals (and in the case of Mine Cart levels, the add-ons), you'll see the value adds up to over $500 (with add-ons) already, and will only get better as they add more stretch goals and add-ons. So, even the $475 MC packages are, and will be, worth what you are pledging. It is a high pledge cost, but you are getting a huge amount of stuff, and essentially two games that can be used together.

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Matt Price
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I agree with the OP, the Prospector level isn't very good, there's just no real reason to pledge there. The Outlaw level is high at $150, but the value is already quite good, and we're only a few days (!) into a quite-successful KS project. Even the rather noisy minority of folks who are rightfully frustrated with the silly minecart pricing haven't slowed this down. I'm impressed at how it's taken off!
 
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Jack Swan
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mattprice wrote:
I agree with the OP, the Prospector level isn't very good, there's just no real reason to pledge there. The Outlaw level is high at $150, but the value is already quite good, and we're only a few days (!) into a quite-successful KS project. Even the rather noisy minority of folks who are rightfully frustrated with the silly minecart pricing haven't slowed this down. I'm impressed at how it's taken off!

The value indeed seems quite good for US backers, but without a EU shipping solution it is still steep for Europeans. But I expect the game to do really well in retail over here, because it sure looks great. Too bad about the extras, but that's life.
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Freelance Police
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Unplugged wrote:
Can anyone explain why the Prospector level us set up the way it is?


So BGG'ers won't complain they can't buy only one set.

KS are there for the creators, not the backers. I imagine FFP prefers large chunks of money from fewer backers than smaller ones, because it's less work to fulfill, and they don't *need* every single dollar from their potential customers, just enough to reach some funding level. Customers who don't want to throw $150+ on a single game system will wait until the xLGS has it -- which would suit FFP just fine since the game is also meant to be sold retail. Sure, the KS won't hit all the potential stretch goals, but that's worse news for the backers than the creators. Remember, at some point, free stretch goals reduce the "profit" in a project -- they only increase the funding, which is only gross income. I mean, why give away stuff that costs you money when you don't have to?

This isn't the first KS I've seen that does something like this. Dwarven Forge had a one-set pledge level, but you couldn't get any of the stretch goals. Many miniatures KS have a level where you only buy one or two of the offered minis, at a much higher per mini cost than the other pledge levels.

Remember, this boardgame is eventually meant to be sold retail. If the KS doesn't have an offer you like, wait for it then.
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