jeremy cobert
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Is this site some type of "onion" site for the UK ? I hear nothing but glowing reviews of socialized heath care here in RSP.

This cant be real, can it ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2474773/Patients-ris...

Well, keep a stiff upper lip ol' chap !
 
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Les Marshall
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jeremycobert wrote:
Is this site some type of "onion" site for the UK ? I hear nothing but glowing reviews of socialized heath care here in RSP.

This cant be real, can it ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2474773/Patients-ris...

Well, keep a stiff upper lip ol' chap !


Sure is a good thing these things don't hapen in private hospitals....right?
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
Rulesjd wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
Is this site some type of "onion" site for the UK ? I hear nothing but glowing reviews of socialized heath care here in RSP.

This cant be real, can it ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2474773/Patients-ris...

Well, keep a stiff upper lip ol' chap !


Sure is a good thing these things don't hapen in private hospitals....right?
First of all, I congratulate you for responding to the substance instead of the messenger.

Those things do not happen EXSESSIVLY at private hospitals, as is the issue here. A) gov't regulators do a great job of policing such. B) private hospitals operating in a free market take steps to avoid such.

In the US these stories are mostly the domain of the gov't run VA system or inner city/poor communities that rely heavily on gov't programs to get paid, breaking even or losing money, and are only theoretically in the free market. The payee (gov't) is not the party seeking service and only cares that the paperwork is in order.


I hear what you are saying. Absent a statisical study or data I would reserve judgement on the credibility of your assertion however. Based on my personal and professional encounters with private medical providers, it is my feeling that assumptions about the differences are just that.

A contextual conversation would be instructive perhaps. This particular OP tends to cherry pick stories and data points however. The debate continues......
 
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List of things the Daily mail says cause cancer (from Anorak.co.uk)

AGE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-449783/Women-birth-a...
AIR POLLUTION http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-358875/Pollution-c...-…
AIR TRAVEL http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-200443/Frequent-fl...… and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-591109/Cancer-risk...….
ALCOHOL http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-147083/Drink-day-inc...… and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-471910/Bowel-cance...
ALLERGIES http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-324732/Child-aller...
ARTIFICIAL FLAVOURS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-55023/Cancer-causing...
ARTIFICIAL LIGHT http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-391267/Artificial-...
ASBESTOS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1170584/Asbestos-sch...-…
ASPIRIN http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-205490/Asprin-link...
BABIES http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-157683/Birth-size-li...….
BABY BOTTLES http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1038697/EU-rejects...
BABY FOOD http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-199887/Baby-food-c...
BACON http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1102368/Additives-...
BARBEQUES http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-326153/Australians-w...
BEEF http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-393666/Alarm-beef-li...….
BEER http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1161843/Just-pint-...
BEING A BLACK PERSON http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1064547/Black-men-...… and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-508753/Black-women...
BEING A WOMAN http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-63976/Cancer-risk-...
BEING A MAN http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-306543/Men-twice-l...-…
BEING SOUTHERN http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1027331/Why-afflue...
BELTS - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2439962/Wearing-ti...–increasing-risk-disease.html
BISCUITS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-126342/Cancer-food...
BLOWJOBS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-453843/Oral-sex-ca...
BRAS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-182370/Is-bra-bad-yo...
BREAD http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-411506/White-bread...
BREAST FEEDING http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-178756/Whos-risk-b...
BREAST IMPLANTS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-41443/Breast-impla...….
BROCCOLI - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2259280/Superfoods...
BROKEN HEARTS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-450049/How-heart-bro...
BUBBLE BATH http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-403703/Is-bubble-b...
BURGERS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-467360/Cancer-scar...
CAFFINE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1127473/Coffee-rai...
CALCUIM http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1052127/Fatal-cancer...
CANDLE-LIT DINNERShttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1207726/Candles-re...
CANNED FOOD http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-44676/Gender-bendi...-…
CARBOHYDRATES http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-313227/Low-carb-di...
CARS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-358875/Pollution-c...-…
CEREAL http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-115696/How-safe-fa...
CHEESE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1002424/Italy-shuts-...
CHICKEN http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-429303/Families-risk...
CHILDLESSNESShttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-474820/...
CHILDREN http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-506501/Prostate-ri...-…
CHILDREN’S FOODhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-201390/Health-warnin...
CHILLIS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-347287/Cancer-chec...
CHINESE MEDICINE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-75547/Warming-canc...
CHIPS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-487571/Parents-tol...
CHLORINE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-431777/Chlorine-bath...
CHOCLATE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-386625/Cancer-fear...
CITY LIVING http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-496495/City-life-b...
CLIMATE CHANGE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-452789/Warmer-clim...
COCA COLA http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-337178/Carrot-day-...
COD LIVER OIL http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-379918/Cancer-fear...
COFFEE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3027/How-healthy-c...
CONSTAPATION http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-193698/Atkins-diet...
CONTRACEPTIVE PILLShttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-181273/Cancer-risk...
COOKING http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-382571/Frying-incr...….
CORDLESS PHONES http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-515970/After-cance...
CRAYONS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6706/Safety-alert-be...
CURRY http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-342632/Cancer-dye-...
DEODRANT http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-205705/Deodorants-...
DEPRESSION http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2442249/Depre...
DIETING http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-73056/Is-diet-life...
DOGS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-490581/Can-dogs-br...
EGGS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-50995/Cancer-chemica...
EGYPTIAN MOOBS – here
ELECTRICITY http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-449679/Power-lines-l...
ENGLISH BREAKFASThttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1049142/Traditiona...
FACEBOOK http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1149207/How-using-...
FALSE NAILS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1174768/Having-nai...
FATHERHOOD http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-506501/Prostate-ri...-…
FIBRE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4903/Fibre-cancer-ri...
FISH http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-117840/Fish-cancer...
FIZZY DRINKS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1249305/Two-fizzy-...
FLIP FLOPS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1025915/Wearing-FL...
FLY SPRAY http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-459938/Using-...-…
FREQUENT FLYING – here
FRUIT http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-371260/Breast-canc...
FRUIT JUICE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1254534/Fruit-juice-...
GARDENS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-326153/Australians-w...
GRAPEFRUIT http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-468559/Eating-grap...
HAIR DYE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1017259/How-using-...
HAM http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-490845/Is-safe-eat...
HEIGHT http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1064454/Bigger-tal...
HONEY http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-429303/Families-risk...
HOT DRINKS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-115696/How-safe-fa...
HRT http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1214782/HRT-increa...
INTERNET http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-312505/Cancer-pati...
IVF http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-148228/How-IVF-rai...….
KIDNEY TRANSPLATShttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-459097/TV-prize...
LAMB http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-446559/Red-meat-li...
LARGE HEADS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-370870/Big-headed-...
LEFT-HANDEDNESS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-363477/Left-hander...
LIPSTICK http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-499967/Is-lipstick...
LIVER TRANSPLANTS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-207838/Cancer-live...
LONG FINGERS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2439430/Why-long-f...
MENOPAUSE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-395201/Weight-gain-m...
MENSTRUATION http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-68946/Do-women-nee...
METAL http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1081692/The-metals...
MIDDLE CLASS – here
MILK http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-328863/Milk-linked...
MOBILE PHONES http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-473553/Orange-remo...
MODERN LIVING http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-474157/Modern-livi...
MONEY http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1025375/Wealthy-ba...
MORPHINE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1230208/Pain-drug-...
MOUTHWASH http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1113422/Mouthwash-...
NUCLEAR POWER (there is no hint of irony in this article)http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-42066/New-study-link...
OBESITY – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-245997/Obesity-rai...
OESTROGEN – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4098/Oestrogen-lin...
OLDER FATHERS – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1223025/Why-older-...
PASTRY – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-115696/How-safe-fa...
PEANUT BUTTER – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1164417/Food-watchdo...-…
PERFUME – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1051130/How-perfum...
PICKLES - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-115696/How-safe-fa...
PIZZA – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-341698/New-food-dy...
PLASTIC BAGS - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1207840/Plast...
PORK – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1093039/After-alert-...
POTATOES – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-115037/Cancer-chemic...
POVERTY – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-474820/...
PREGNANCY http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-82458/Breast-cance...
RADIOACTIVITY – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-421140/As-radioactiv...-…
RICE - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-444222/Rice-tainte...-…
SAUSAGES - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-550729/Why-eating-...-…
RETIREMENT - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1220446/Oh-Work-go...
SEX – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-191219/Did-sex-can...
SEX WITH SPARROWS – here
SHAVING - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-206459/Shaving-rai...
SKIING – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-206243/Skiers-warn...
SLEEP APNEA – here
SOUP – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1132814/Salty-soup...
SPACE TRAVEL – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1015482/How-astronau...–p…
SUN CREAM - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-592076/Cancer-fear...
SWEETS – here
TALCUM POWDER - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1063040/Cancer-ale...
TATTOOS – here
TEA – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-87131/Too-tea-treb...
TEEN SEX - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1237530/Girls-sex-...
THIRD HAND SMOKE - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1249591/Even-hand-...–…
TV – here
VITAMINS - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-320006/Vitamin-pil...
WATER – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13620/Cancer-link-...
WI-FI - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-456534/The-classroom...
WORCESTER SAUCE – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-338899/Dye-alert-s...
WORKING http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1031934/Why-men-de...
X-RAYS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-207035/X-rays-brin...
ZEBRA TOYS - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2439656/Start-Your-S...

(My point is they are hugely bias against the NHS, Unions, Human Rights, left wing politics (even central left) and don't have a good tract record with presenting objective or even factually correct information.

Anyone remember when they blamed Small World for a mother failing to look after her children? Their article also used art from GW... the game in question turned out to be second life. )
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Eddy Richards
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Given that one can hardly trust the Daily Mail to report anything accurately I had a quick look at the Quality Care Commission website http://www.cqc.org.uk, as the source of this news story.

Picking a few hospitals in the highest risk band (band 1) at random, I had a look. A couple of them didn't appear to have anything at all currently noted against them, but were the subject of investigations and checks. Of those that did, some of the criticisms were about how information was reported (rather than the actual clinical care). So I think the 1 in 4 figure is perhaps rather inflated. Apart from anything else, some people being at risk in 1 in 4 hospitals is rather different from 1 in 4 people being at risk (which is what a casual reader of the Daily Mail headline might infer).

This is not to deny that there haven't been problems in the NHS - there have been several uncovered fairly recently, and clearly this needs to be addressed and dealt with. I gather that the QCC's new inspection regime is designed to do this - I'm not qualified to comment on whether it does or not, though at first sight it looks quite rigorous.

More directly addressing the OP, though, many of the problems in the NHS are put down by observers to the increased marketisation of healthcare, with hospitals becoming trusts and buying services of each other and so on. Many people decry the increase in the amount of management at the expense of health professional, especially nurses. But for example the lack of properly clean wards has been put down to the cleaners, who used to be directly employed by the NHS, being replaced by cheaper private companies providing this service, and them doing the minimum possible rather than a good job (in the name of efficiency).

So it seems to me that as the NHS hopsitals has become more like a private company, the care of patients has got worse, rather than this being a failure due to medicine being socialised.

Also relevant in the UK is that private hospitals (there are a few) take only easy cases, anything difficult or expensive they pass on to the NHS. And indeed, if the private companies make a botch up of things, like the recent breast augmentation failures, the NHS has to deal with the fall out.

If anything, failures in hospitals, whether public or private, suggest the need for an independent and powerful inspection which can insist on high standards. In other words, you need the strong arm of the government to make sure healthcare is as good as possible, whether this is to prop up failures from laziness, inefficiency, money saving, or anything else.

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Ed_the_Red wrote:
Given that one can hardly trust the Daily Mail to report anything accurately I had a quick look at the Quality Care Commission website http://www.cqc.org.uk, as the source of this news story.

Picking a few hospitals in the highest risk band (band 1) at random, I had a look. A couple of them didn't appear to have anything at all currently noted against them, but were the subject of investigations and checks. Of those that did, some of the criticisms were about how information was reported (rather than the actual clinical care). So I think the 1 in 4 figure is perhaps rather inflated. Apart from anything else, some people being at risk in 1 in 4 hospitals is rather different from 1 in 4 people being at risk (which is what a casual reader of the Daily Mail headline might infer).

This is not to deny that there haven't been problems in the NHS - there have been several uncovered fairly recently, and clearly this needs to be addressed and dealt with. I gather that the QCC's new inspection regime is designed to do this - I'm not qualified to comment on whether it does or not, though at first sight it looks quite rigorous.

More directly addressing the OP, though, many of the problems in the NHS are put down by observers to the increased marketisation of healthcare, with hospitals becoming trusts and buying services of each other and so on. Many people decry the increase in the amount of management at the expense of health professional, especially nurses. But for example the lack of properly clean wards has been put down to the cleaners, who used to be directly employed by the NHS, being replaced by cheaper private companies providing this service, and them doing the minimum possible rather than a good job (in the name of efficiency).

So it seems to me that as the NHS hopsitals has become more like a private company, the care of patients has got worse, rather than this being a failure due to medicine being socialised.

Also relevant in the UK is that private hospitals (there are a few) take only easy cases, anything difficult or expensive they pass on to the NHS. And indeed, if the private companies make a botch up of things, like the recent breast augmentation failures, the NHS has to deal with the fall out.

If anything, failures in hospitals, whether public or private, suggest the need for an independent and powerful inspection which can insist on high standards. In other words, you need the strong arm of the government to make sure healthcare is as good as possible, whether this is to prop up failures from laziness, inefficiency, money saving, or anything else.

Man that was a lot of effort to avoid addressing the substance of the point by impugning the medium.
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DCAnderson wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Man that was a lot of effort to avoid addressing the substance of the point by impugning the medium.


Why should I have to take the time to address something from a newspaper whose reputation is to favor sensationalism over good journalism to the degree that The Daily Mail does?

The Mail has made their bed, they can sleep in it.


I'm wondering why I bothered to put some effort into responding to the substance of the post and avoiding the medium, when the OP appears to have no interest in a discussion - or at least hasn't managed to add their thoughts on the subject.

Class is very much in the eye of the beholder.
 
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