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Magic: The Gathering» Forums » Rules

Subject: Tap target creature vs. tap target creature rss

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robin sandin
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Me and my opponent both have a Master Decoy (tap to tap target creature). http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiver...

I want to use my MD to tap one of his stronger creatures. In response, he taps his MD to tap my MD, preventing my tapping of his stronger creature.

Correct?
 
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Cyrus the Great
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No! You pay the cost (white and tap your MD) and the ability goes on the stack. In response, he pays white and taps his MD and his own ability goes on your stack. However, he can't interrupt your activating the MD. Once you've activated its ability, it is on the stack and tapping your MD won't do anything.
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Jerbear
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No, abilities always go on the stack so it would go roughly like this.

You have priority.

You say I am going to tap your big guy with my Master Decoy.

Pay Costs: Pay one white, Tap your MD, Choose Target (The big guy)

Pass priority.

Opponent: I am going to tap your MD with my Master Decoy.

Pays costs: Pat white, Tap his MD, Target your MD.

He Passes priority

You pass priority

Top ability resolves. His MD tries to tap yours. It sees it is already tapped and does nothing (really it taps something that is already tapped which has no effect)

Your ability resolves and taps the big guy.




Once an ability is on the stack you have to have a card that specifically targets an ability on the stack to affect it. Tapping the thing that made the effect isn't going to do anything.
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chris leko
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rolle123 wrote:
Me and my opponent both have a Master Decoy (tap to tap target creature). http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiver...

I want to use my MD to tap one of his stronger creatures. In response, he taps his MD to tap my MD, preventing my tapping of his stronger creature.

Correct?


It all goes onto the stack.

So you tap you guy, and it's ability goes on the stack (you've already paid the cost of tapping your creature). Then, you pass priority to him, where he taps HIS guy and the ability goes on the stack. He passes priority back to you, and you can choose to do something or pass, then it goes to him. Then the stack resolves from the top down. So he gets to tap someone first, but as you guy is already tapped, he's not really a legal target. Well, I guess he is, but it won't do anything (you can't be double tapped). Then you get to resolve your ability and tap his big dude.

There are instant speed things in the game, but there's nothing that really "interrupts" any one else's action, everything goes to the stack before it resolves.

Once you get the hang on the stack, most rules questions can answer themselves.
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James Ducas
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Back in my day (OK gramps) there was actually a card type called interrupt that did just that.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/...
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Yoga Wind
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Darkrider wrote:
Back in my day (OK gramps) there was actually a card type called interrupt that did just that.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/...

Nowadays we call it "Split Second"...

 
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Nico
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Interrupt is gone long ago.
As spoon said, split second is the way to go.
 
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Max Maloney
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Neither interrupts not split second would change this scenario. Nothing you can do interrupts another player in the middle of casting a spell (ie, putting it on the stack).
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Nico
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Dormammu wrote:
Neither interrupts not split second would change this scenario. Nothing you can do interrupts another player in the middle of casting a spell (ie, putting it on the stack).


You're right. With split second it's possible to stop the opponent cancel your spells.
 
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Thane BenAngelo
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What??? No more interrupts?

So what's the rule for cards, pre-sixth, that are explicitly interrupts? Have them become 'split-seconds'?
 
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Thane BenAngelo
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often wrote:
rolle123 wrote:
Me and my opponent both have a Master Decoy (tap to tap target creature). http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiver...

I want to use my MD to tap one of his stronger creatures. In response, he taps his MD to tap my MD, preventing my tapping of his stronger creature.

Correct?


It all goes onto the stack.

So you tap you guy, and it's ability goes on the stack (you've already paid the cost of tapping your creature). Then, you pass priority to him, where he taps HIS guy and the ability goes on the stack. He passes priority back to you, and you can choose to do something or pass, then it goes to him. Then the stack resolves from the top down. So he gets to tap someone first, but as you guy is already tapped, he's not really a legal target.


New old player here. Still new to the stack concept.

What if we turned it around a bit? Changed the order.

His MD acts first, paying to tap your MD. Is there time to then tap your MD to tap his fatty? His on the bottom of the stack, yours above it. By the time his resolves, your MD is already tapped so his has no effect, yesno?
 
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Jerbear
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NO they are instants.
 
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Dan Regs
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Parataxis wrote:


New old player here. Still new to the stack concept.

What if we turned it around a bit? Changed the order.

His MD acts first, paying to tap your MD. Is there time to then tap your MD to tap his fatty? His on the bottom of the stack, yours above it. By the time his resolves, your MD is already tapped so his has no effect, yesno?


He activates his MD, and pays the cost (tapping it), and choosing targets (your MD). You may now respond.

You activate your MD, and pay the cost (tapping it), targeting his fatty. He may now respond.

No player takes any action, your ability resolves, and his fatty is tapped. Both players have an opportunity to announce other abilities or instants in turn order - but let's assume nothing is added to the stack here.

No player takes any action, his ability resolves. The ability does as much as possible (which isn't much in this case, because your MD is already tapped).

 
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You can't handle the truth?
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Parataxis wrote:
often wrote:
rolle123 wrote:
Me and my opponent both have a Master Decoy (tap to tap target creature). http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiver...

I want to use my MD to tap one of his stronger creatures. In response, he taps his MD to tap my MD, preventing my tapping of his stronger creature.

Correct?


It all goes onto the stack.

So you tap you guy, and it's ability goes on the stack (you've already paid the cost of tapping your creature). Then, you pass priority to him, where he taps HIS guy and the ability goes on the stack. He passes priority back to you, and you can choose to do something or pass, then it goes to him. Then the stack resolves from the top down. So he gets to tap someone first, but as you guy is already tapped, he's not really a legal target.


New old player here. Still new to the stack concept.

What if we turned it around a bit? Changed the order.

His MD acts first, paying to tap your MD. Is there time to then tap your MD to tap his fatty? His on the bottom of the stack, yours above it. By the time his resolves, your MD is already tapped so his has no effect, yesno?


Just to summarize the answers.

Whether your opponent taps his MD before you, or in response to you, you can still use your own MD, and your own MD will still work.

In both cases, when your opponent's MD resolves, your MD is already tapped.
 
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Mark McEvoy
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Or even more generally: *costs* occur when a spell or ability is cast / activated (read: announced/played). Everything else happens when it resolves (read: when people stop making other stuff happen and let that thing happen).

If the cost of an ability is to tap a creature, that creature that activated an ability that included tapping it as a cost will already be tapped before anyone gets a chance to respond.

Likewise for sacrifices. When a Mogg Fanatic's ability is activated (sacrifice Mogg Fanatic: Mogg Fanatic deals 1 damage to target creature or player), that Mogg Fanatic is dead and gone by the time anyone else can begin responding to the activation. Which is to say they can't Murder the Mogg Fanatic in response - it isn't even around anymore.
 
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Caerid is just some guy
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crambaza wrote:
Parataxis wrote:
often wrote:
rolle123 wrote:
Me and my opponent both have a Master Decoy (tap to tap target creature). http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiver...

I want to use my MD to tap one of his stronger creatures. In response, he taps his MD to tap my MD, preventing my tapping of his stronger creature.

Correct?


It all goes onto the stack.

So you tap you guy, and it's ability goes on the stack (you've already paid the cost of tapping your creature). Then, you pass priority to him, where he taps HIS guy and the ability goes on the stack. He passes priority back to you, and you can choose to do something or pass, then it goes to him. Then the stack resolves from the top down. So he gets to tap someone first, but as you guy is already tapped, he's not really a legal target.


New old player here. Still new to the stack concept.

What if we turned it around a bit? Changed the order.

His MD acts first, paying to tap your MD. Is there time to then tap your MD to tap his fatty? His on the bottom of the stack, yours above it. By the time his resolves, your MD is already tapped so his has no effect, yesno?


Just to summarize the answers.

Whether your opponent taps his MD before you, or in response to you, you can still use your own MD, and your own MD will still work.

In both cases, when your opponent's MD resolves, your MD is already tapped.


Just to throw another wrinkle in on this conversation:

Player One has an MD, the player two has a Royal Assassin. Assuming player one attempts to tap player two's big creature, can the royal assassin then tap to destroy him before his effect takes place and player two's big creature would not get tapped? I'm fairly sure I know the answer to this, but I want to make sure.
 
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