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Subject: Sold out at Essen rss

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Richard Dewsbery
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As it says on the tin. All copies gone by midday Saturday.

The game will be available direct from www.treefrog.com in a few weeks' time.
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Jack Francisco
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Thanks for the update. Not surprising, really. Hope they didn't sell my copy!
 
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Steve Blackwell
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senorcoo wrote:
Thanks for the update. Not surprising, really. Hope they didn't sell my copy!


I'm due a postal, so hope they got their numbers right on the KS copies!

M B
 
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Ben
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mudshark_baby wrote:
senorcoo wrote:
Thanks for the update. Not surprising, really. Hope they didn't sell my copy!


I'm due a postal, so hope they got their numbers right on the KS copies!

M B


I overheard them talking about this. It sounded like they will still have copies for sale through their site, they just sold out at the show. So I expect the Kickstarter backers have nothing to worry about.
 
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Jason
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I imagine half those copies will be returned when folks realise there's no poster in it...
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Bruce Murphy
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As with the whole preorder thing that Treefrog used to run well before kickstarter existed, the early subscribers get guaranteed access to the game without having to dash to Essen on the first day. It's a non-trivial thing.

B>
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I did the KS and of course I still do not have the game. I did it with some friends of mine: we bought 6 copies.

Someone told me that on the first day at Essen the game was priced 40 euro. Someone complained and magically the price raised to 45 euro.

This is not fair. Absolutely.

I paid the KS months ago and I do not have the game nor I paid it less than who took it at Essen.

About the KS rewards...well we know the issue about the "cool poster". None wanted it, better some extra in game. No way: the poster is a reward. Than guess what? No poster inside: Mr Wallace forgot it?

Is it a Joke?

I'm very upset for this behavior. The Fans of Mr Wallace actually love him 'cause of his (mostly previous) games.

I'm a Fan of Wallace. I'd like to underline that. Check my games.
I love Steam, Steam Barons, Railroad Tycoon, Brass, Automobile, London, liberté, Struggle of Empires, Conquest of Empire II, etcetera.

But if it's true I love Martin's game design, I swear I won't do a new Wallace KS ever again. It doesn't worth 'cause of it is not fair for the bakers.
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Ben
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aledrugo1977 wrote:
Someone told me that on the first day at Essen the game was priced 40 euro. Someone complained and magically the price raised to 45 euro.


I don't think this is true, unless it was just an early error by someone at the booth. I bought my copy on Day 1 and paid 45 Eur for it. I also had it listed on my Essen shopping list as 45 Eur, so that is the price they advertised before the fair.
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chally wrote:
aledrugo1977 wrote:
Someone told me that on the first day at Essen the game was priced 40 euro. Someone complained and magically the price raised to 45 euro.


I don't think this is true, unless it was just an early error by someone at the booth. I bought my copy on Day 1 and paid 45 Eur for it. I also had it listed on my Essen shopping list as 45 Eur, so that is the price they advertised before the fair.


We bought a copy pretty early on day 1 as well, but the guy did try to give me back 10 euros (paid with 50) - they told me I was too honest when I pointed it out.
 
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Halloween Jack
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aledrugo1977 wrote:
Someone told me that on the first day at Essen the game was priced 40 euro. Someone complained and magically the price raised to 45 euro.
This is not fair. Absolutely.


I've visited the booth thursday (1st day for the public), around 10:30 - 11:00 o'clock. Price was 45 € at that time.

Probably a erronous report.
 
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I wasn't there, someone told me.
Maybe he saw a wrong change. He was a baker too and got angry fastly. I just reported what he told me.

Any way the point is an other.
Why do I have to support KS if:

- I get the game after a common buyer
- I pay months before for the same content? I mean the rewards...they are for every one. So it is not a reward
- I pay not less than a common buyer (6 pack bakers, 44 euro each copy, no poster...uh I do not care about than but it is not fair too)

My humble point is: I won't support a Wallace KS no more. I have no real "plus".
The rewards are a fake, I mean they are for all so I'll keep my money in my wallet months till I see the game ready.

I love his games. Martin Wallace is a brilliant game designer.
I'll buy his boardgames but not with a KS 'cause it doesn't worth the effort.
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Mikko Saari
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Kickstarters are rarely a good deal; it's something you do to support the author, not to get a good deal. That's my understanding after several cases.

That said, I did get the game last Thursday, so no complaints about that from me.
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James Clarke
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aledrugo1977 wrote:
He was a baker too and got angry .....


Too much dough?

I think you mean backer.
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Highland Cow wrote:
aledrugo1977 wrote:
He was a baker too and got angry .....


Too much dough?

I think you mean backer.


Ah ah ah yep bro you are right, I forgot a "c"!

In the end it was better to bake a pizza instead.
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Jason
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msaari wrote:
Kickstarters are rarely a good deal; it's something you do to support the author, not to get a good deal.


Isn't it something you do to get a piece of cardboard in the hope that not many other people will, so you can crow about it on here and then head to eBay when the price rockets?

I've not looked into KS too deeply, admittedly, so I may be missing some of the nuances.

That said, if I hadn't been between jobs when this hit, I would have been all over pre-ordering it. I'm stupidly keen to get my hands on the game. (None of the other guff; just the game.)

Tongue is in cheek, here, I don't want people thinking I'm being a smart-arse for the sake of it. Mind you, the only lesson I've picked up from this website about the KS phenomena is: stop buying things that don't exist.
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repairmanjack wrote:
Mind you, the only lesson I've picked up from this website about the KS phenomena is: stop buying things that don't exist.


I couldn't agree more with you.
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matt way
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I think a lot of people don't realize how much a gamble kickstarter is. While it is fun and you get to push through games that might never have published, there are a lot of risks involved. You are giving small publishers, often with little business experience, cash upfront for something to be delivered 8 months later.
There are a ton of things that can sink a launch (production errors, illness, lawsuits, etc).
Its not the cheap preorder system that we want it to be.

Poliorcetes
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David Thornton
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I'm sorry you feel slighted by the campaign. It really sucks when your expectations are not met, especially by a company/designer you are a big fan of. But I think you have to look at the source of those missed expectations and determine if they were promised by the campaign or implied by yourself.

ASiE Kickstarter Campaign Main Page wrote:
Treefrog will print a number of additional copies to sell at the Essen Games Fair and directly from our website. Please note that everybody will receive the same version of the game, with the exception of those people who manage to snag signed copies.


So Treefrog said upfront that the KS version would be sold at Essen and that it would be the same version as the retail. They also said "We hope" to have the game ready by October 2013, and, to the best of my knowledge, most if not all copies have been shipped to backers or are on their way to their respective distribution points via ocean freight. Personally this is one of the few projects I've backed that has actually met its original delivery estimate.

As far as price, you said you went in on a 6 pack but paid more than fair goers. A 6 pack price is €36.66, including shipping. Even if you paid €50 Euros for a single, that price includes shipping. It doesn't say anywhere that KS copies were being sold for MSRP + Free shipping, so selling it for €45 (or even €40, though it seems that may be a mistake) is not unreasonable.

As far as the poster, yes you have a legitimate gripe with that. I think most backers are not worried about it (including myself) but I can understand this complaint. I think it would be honorable to make this poster available some other way, but I understand that this just might not be economically feesible for a small company.

It seems most of your gripes are based on expectations that were not offered by this particular campaign. I can understand if you don't want to use Kickstarter again, but do so for the right reasons. Kickstarter is a new platform that is still defining itself, but as of now the only thing certain is it takes your money and gives it to someone else. From that point it is up to that someone else to deliver on their promises, and compared to a host of other board game Kickstarter projects, Treefrog has done a pretty good job, in my opinion.
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Richard Dewsbery
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Study was absolutely NOT priced at €40 at any point during the show. Nor were there any discounts available to customers. The game was €45 from start to finish (I know, having seen the price stickers written out on Weds afternoon).

Essen sales are important to Treefrog - always have been. Which is why Martin was completely up front from the start that a study would be sold at Essen whether or not backer copies had shipped. Problems with the Treefrog payment system, plus the increased difficulty of handling everything at arm's length from New Zealand, no doubt contributed to the difficulty of getting KS copies posted out ahead of the show, but they will be in the pipeline. And soon those who missed out at Essen and with the KS will be able to buy direct from Treefrog.com.
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Poliorcetes wrote:
I think a lot of people don't realize how much a gamble kickstarter is. ....
Its not the cheap preorder system that we want it to be.

Poliorcetes


I disagree in this situation.
Tree Frog is not a roockie company. Please have a look to its production if you didn't realize who is Martin Wallace.

This is not a "first game".

Till today Tree Frog (as War Frog did before) published a lot of boardgames.

How was it possible? Do you think it was easier than a KS project?
I do not think so.
Normally you, I mean you publisher, put money in advance to produce your boardgame. You have to decide how many copies and fix the right price according to your foresee of audience & sells.
This is company risk. I mean the classical one: all you already said PLUS no money in advance.

KS helps the "young" publisher to low down the classical risk with the backers. With KS you know in advance your (minimum) buyers and you have their money in advance.

Of course life is full of risks but in my humble opinion Tree Frog with KS has less risks than a classical production.
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Pear Annoyed wrote:
. A 6 pack price is €36.66, including shipping.


Nope, I'm sorry but you are completely wrong.

You are mixing and £.

We paid 44 euro, or 36.66£ if you like, for each copy of our 6 pack box.
Shipping included of course.

A single copy with KS was 58 euro, or 50£ if you like. Shipping included.

In my humble opinion the selling price at Essen of 45 euro it is not fair for the backers.

By the way I'm not angry. I repeat I'm a very big fan of Wallace and I'm sure the game will be great.

But this KS doesn't worth the effort. No reward actually. Even less rewards than promised (yep the poster is a reward due to us: next time I'll forget to pay). The backer gamble in a product but the reward in this KS is too poor. I mean the reward is "you have the game". No real extra.

It's surely my fault I mean too expectation in being a backer. It's easier for me to be a common buyer.

By the way...
Long life to Mr Wallace, one of the most brilliant game designer ever.
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M.C.Crispy
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The only reasons that I supported this KS were:
1) I wasn't going to at Essen to buy a copy there
2) I thought that the price inclusive of shipping was acceptable given the volatile pricing of sought after games with limited print runs
3) I wasn't sure about availability and pricing post-Essen, and I really wanted a copy.

This campaign was just a cash-flow exercise for the publisher, with no real KS-specific benefits. I thought that was pretty obvious. I suspect that any subsequent editions of the game will actually contain a better version of the game - both rules-wise and component-wise (how are people liking the board in the flesh?) but that's OK, I knew exactly what I was "buying".
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Paul Thompson
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MC has your copy arrived yet?
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James Clarke
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Paul Thompson
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Anyone out there (in UK) got their copy yet?
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