Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar – Tribes & Prophecies» Forums » General

Subject: loosens the Game? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ken Dilloo
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
badge
The Ginger Ninja
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hoping to get some opinions from folks playing this at Spiel. I love the base game of Tzolk'in, mainly because it is so tight. It seems like this expansion really just loosens the whole game up. Wondering if this is accurate, from people playing?

Also, it seems as though the prophecies might add a bit of luck, like if you had the prophecy that makes tech advancing more difficult (and rewarded), but someone might have starting wealths that give them a larger advantage, because they start advanced in techs.

Any comments from people playing this would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathue Faulkner
United States
Austin
TX
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm holding off on the expansion for now because I have similar concerns...

I'm usually a sucker for expansions, but this one just didn't click with me from a rules read through.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Churchill
United Kingdom
Cambridge
Cambs
flag msg tools
designer
"If we knew what we were building, it wouldn't be called research!"
badge
Sufficiently advanced mathematics is indistinguishable from magic
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bigloo33 wrote:
Hoping to get some opinions from folks playing this at Spiel. I love the base game of Tzolk'in, mainly because it is so tight. It seems like this expansion really just loosens the whole game up. Wondering if this is accurate, from people playing?
What do you mean "tight"/"loosens"?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christoph M.
Germany
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
alextfish wrote:
bigloo33 wrote:
Hoping to get some opinions from folks playing this at Spiel. I love the base game of Tzolk'in, mainly because it is so tight. It seems like this expansion really just loosens the whole game up. Wondering if this is accurate, from people playing?
What do you mean "tight"/"loosens"?


Using the new quick actions makes the game much more forgiving, since you can react that much faster.
Not using the quick actions means leaving most of the expansion out.

I'm also not overly impressed by this expansion (as long as you don't wnat to play with 5 pl) and have the same concerns.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hornless Unicorn
msg tools
And another 100GG on this
badge
I just spent 100GG on this
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My feeling is that the expansion is for people who played the game tens of times, mastered the strategies and want some extra variability in the game, even if it makes the game less balanced and less tight.

I guess that the base game would be the most 'fair' way to play the game, and I feel that the starting tiles and monuments give you enough variability.

For me, the most interesting new feature is the tribes. I'm sure new strategies will come up that exploit some of the tribe's powers.

That being said, I too am interested in the opinion of peopled who mastered the game and just added the expansion in the mix.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Dilloo
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
badge
The Ginger Ninja
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
alextfish wrote:
bigloo33 wrote:
Hoping to get some opinions from folks playing this at Spiel. I love the base game of Tzolk'in, mainly because it is so tight. It seems like this expansion really just loosens the whole game up. Wondering if this is accurate, from people playing?
What do you mean "tight"/"loosens"?


Thanks for all the answers above guys. Hopefully, as more people play, we will get a better understanding of how it affects the game.

By tight and loose, I am generally referring to how difficult the game is, how much planning is required for even meager games, and how much you have to compete with opponents to get those meager gains; although I believe these to be common game terms. A looser game would make it generally easier, having powers that allow you to make bigger gains more easily, and possibly introduce some luck.

Seems like this introduces a good deal of variety, but might sacrifice that tightness. Might be great for some folks, but might diminish my favorite aspect of the game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A Ray
United States
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't necessarily see the expansion loosening up the game as whole. I see it rewarding different strategies based on the prophecies that are out. In general:

a. Great, you start with a couple technologies. Your opponents, by the half way mark, probably plan on having a couple technologies as well, by leveraging their opening advantages. They'll match your starting position and gain points for something they wanted to do anyway.

(Yes, if all three of the prophecies revolve around technology, one is probably ill-advised to go a tech-less route...but again, that's knowable.)

b. Quick events will be hard to use well. They require good planning (they change every two turns) and need to fit into one's place/remove cycle. They will give flexibility, yes, but I don't think they loosen the game for good players. Rather, they provide a floor to the cost of a bad play. I don't think they substitute for good play.

c. Tribes are my biggest concern about balance, but there is a lot of unexplored territory there.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thierry Pattyn
Belgium
moorslede
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I also like this game because it's so tight and unforgiving . Timing is everything in this game . The quick actions look like they will give oppurtunities that will not require good planning and timing . It feels like it will make the game easier and i doubt that this will be a good thing . On the other hand if it makes the game less hard it might appeal to more people ( i have played with people that found it to hard ). Maybe they can call it Tzolkin light
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathue Faulkner
United States
Austin
TX
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gesfakke wrote:
I also like this game because it's so tight and unforgiving . Timing is everything in this game . The quick actions look like they will give oppurtunities that will not require good planning and timing . It feels like it will make the game easier and i doubt that this will be a good thing . On the other hand if it makes the game less hard it might appeal to more people ( i have played with people that found it to hard ). Maybe they can call it Tzolkin light

Ah, but "less hard" with increased complexity is probably not the best combination...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thierry Pattyn
Belgium
moorslede
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
mfaulk80 wrote:
gesfakke wrote:
I also like this game because it's so tight and unforgiving . Timing is everything in this game . The quick actions look like they will give oppurtunities that will not require good planning and timing . It feels like it will make the game easier and i doubt that this will be a good thing . On the other hand if it makes the game less hard it might appeal to more people ( i have played with people that found it to hard ). Maybe they can call it Tzolkin light

Ah, but "less hard" with increased complexity is probably not the best combination...


Good point...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thierry Pattyn
Belgium
moorslede
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I just played the game tonight with all the expansions and this is what I think about them . The quick actions could be helpfull for beginners because they give you a ' quick action ' but in our 5 player game only 4 players used a quick action and did that only once . If you add the extra wood and corn in a 5 player game I guess you could play without the quick actions . I didn't like the tribes very much because they add to the luck factor . If you don't mind that then they can add some variety . The new buildings didn't rock my world either . In 5 player games they will make sure that not all buildings are build to quickly but they were'nt very popular to build . So , can I end on a positve note ? Yes , I can . The prophecies were the best part in my opinion . You have to plan ahead to make good use of them ( extra points ) and they make the game different ( harder? ) with their limitations . Because you use only 3 out of 13 every game will be different . I hope this is usefull information but the best advice would off course be to try it out for yourself .

Greetings Gesfakke meeple


* A game a day , keeps the doctor away *
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Williams
United Kingdom
Beckenham, KENT
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
gesfakke wrote:
I just played the game tonight with all the expansions and this is what I think about them . The quick actions could be helpfull for beginners because they give you a ' quick action ' but in our 5 player game only 4 players used a quick action and did that only once . If you add the extra wood and corn in a 5 player game I guess you could play without the quick actions . I didn't like the tribes very much because they add to the luck factor . If you don't mind that then they can add some variety . The new buildings didn't rock my world either . In 5 player games they will make sure that not all buildings are build to quickly but they were'nt very popular to build . So , can I end on a positve note ? Yes , I can . The prophecies were the best part in my opinion . You have to plan ahead to make good use of them ( extra points ) and they make the game different ( harder? ) with their limitations . Because you use only 3 out of 13 every game will be different . I hope this is usefull information but the best advice would off course be to try it out for yourself .

Greetings Gesfakke meeple


This chimes with my initial thoughts even though I've yet to play the expansions. Prophecies sound like they mesh well into the core mechanic of the game, all timing and planning. Tribes look like off the wall special powers that throw the core game out the window, Quick Actions likewise.

I really only bought the expansion to add the 5th player (my group loves the game but we're often 5p) but I must admit I was disappointed when I read how the 5p was implemented. TBH I'm gonna try the fan created 5p version posted on here. I think that guy did it by allowing pawns to be placed on the -1 spot, ie the spot stil in the cog. It might not work but I like the thinking behind it. It also requires no game bending add-ons.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathue Faulkner
United States
Austin
TX
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Horrid Beast wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
gesfakke wrote:
I also like this game because it's so tight and unforgiving . Timing is everything in this game . The quick actions look like they will give oppurtunities that will not require good planning and timing . It feels like it will make the game easier and i doubt that this will be a good thing . On the other hand if it makes the game less hard it might appeal to more people ( i have played with people that found it to hard ). Maybe they can call it Tzolkin light

Ah, but "less hard" with increased complexity is probably not the best combination...


For once I actually agree with you



We really only disagree on one game (as far as I know). Looking at our collections, we obviously have very different tastes in games with a few notable exceptions. No surprise that we disagree from time to time!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Carroll
United States
Urbana
Illinois
flag msg tools
Soli Deo Gloria!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When the expansion was first announced, I was interested, since Tzolk'in is one of my favorites. After reading more about it, I was turned off. Glad to know others feel the same. I don't expect to buy it now, unless maybe I read a whole bunch of convincing glowing reviews.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thierry Pattyn
Belgium
moorslede
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sunmachine wrote:
gesfakke wrote:
I just played the game tonight with all the expansions and this is what I think about them . The quick actions could be helpfull for beginners because they give you a ' quick action ' but in our 5 player game only 4 players used a quick action and did that only once . If you add the extra wood and corn in a 5 player game I guess you could play without the quick actions . I didn't like the tribes very much because they add to the luck factor . If you don't mind that then they can add some variety . The new buildings didn't rock my world either . In 5 player games they will make sure that not all buildings are build to quickly but they were'nt very popular to build . So , can I end on a positve note ? Yes , I can . The prophecies were the best part in my opinion . You have to plan ahead to make good use of them ( extra points ) and they make the game different ( harder? ) with their limitations . Because you use only 3 out of 13 every game will be different . I hope this is usefull information but the best advice would off course be to try it out for yourself .

Greetings Gesfakke meeple


This chimes with my initial thoughts even though I've yet to play the expansions. Prophecies sound like they mesh well into the core mechanic of the game, all timing and planning. Tribes look like off the wall special powers that throw the core game out the window, Quick Actions likewise.

I really only bought the expansion to add the 5th player (my group loves the game but we're often 5p) but I must admit I was disappointed when I read how the 5p was implemented. TBH I'm gonna try the fan created 5p version posted on here. I think that guy did it by allowing pawns to be placed on the -1 spot, ie the spot stil in the cog. It might not work but I like the thinking behind it. It also requires no game bending add-ons.


Let us know if this works .
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Williams
United Kingdom
Beckenham, KENT
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
Just thought I'd report back, having now played two 5 player games using the fan variant allowing you to place on the -1 cog space. It worked very well indeed. In fact I never told the rest of my group it was anything other than the official variant. No one made any negative comments afterwards, and everyone appeared happy with how the game played.

Both games were longer, which was to be expected, and the overall scores were generally lower (tie break win on 57 points). I thought gaining one coin for placing only one worker on a -1 might unbalance things but the affect was almost unnoticeable. The game was tight and very involved. *On occasion* one of the wheels would be blocked out all the way up to the 4 spot, but I noticed this was largely due to the actions of 1 player each time, so not necessarily a consequence of a 5 player game.

Now even though I own Tribes and Prophecies, I've yet to play the official 5 player variant (the Quick Actions) so I'm not in a position to compare the two. However, if you want a five player a game without resorting to the expansion, my limited experience suggests this works very well indeed.
1 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Nelson
United States
American Fork
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
could you use your variant and only part of the expansion?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Netherlands
Enschede
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ropearoni4 wrote:
could you use your variant and only part of the expansion?

The tribes and prophecies aren't specifically for 5p, so I'd expect those to work just fine with the variant.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.