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Subject: Forts count as outposts? And raid flow chart/forts rss

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Shane Is Board
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I couldn't find any distinction in the rule book so thought I'd ask; do forts count as both a fort and an outpost?

Generally speaking it's not important whether it is or isn't, but it's critically important during the Victory Point segment as it could bump the enemy morale higher (not to mention the culture loss already included!). I'm inclined to believe it is not but since the tri-fold map has it listed under outposts I'm not so sure.

On a somewhat related note, during an enemy raid it is stated you add +2 raid counters during the American period but there is no mention of the bonus counters provided by forts. I'm sure it is a separate bonus but just want to make sure those are two separate instances.
 
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Steve Carey
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No, the Designer has previously confirmed that Forts are not Outposts.

I had the same issue when playing the American era; a Fort summary box would have been very helpful.
 
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Joel Toppen
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Shane Sather wrote:
I couldn't find any distinction in the rule book so thought I'd ask; do forts count as both a fort and an outpost?

Generally speaking it's not important whether it is or isn't, but it's critically important during the Victory Point segment as it could bump the enemy morale higher (not to mention the culture loss already included!). I'm inclined to believe it is not but since the tri-fold map has it listed under outposts I'm not so sure.


Forts are not Outposts:


Here's a brief summary. I'll put this in nicer format and upload to files later:


Forts only impact the Area they are in, not the Areas with a lower Area Value like Outposts.

Forts make Families in the same Area invisible to Raids; Outposts render Families invisible to TRIBAL Raids, but impotent and vulnerable to ENEMY Raids. See flowcharts.

Forts and Reactions: Forts inhibit Families stacked in the same Area from conducting Reactions; Outposts inhibit Families stacked in the same Area as well as Areas with a lower Value in the same Territory from conducting Reactions (5.1.3; errata file clarifies this rule).

Forts render Families in the same Area immune to Slaves Enemy Instruction (4.2.9).

If there is 1+ Family stacked with a Fort, you lose 1 Culture/Military point (2.3.1). Outposts don't hurt you during Discard Phase.

Each Area in a Territory with a Fort costs +1 MP to enter. Each Area in or behind an Outpost costs +1 MP to enter (3.2.2).

Forts can disband Families: Families with Ferocity ≥1 that end their Activation in the same Area as a Fort must disband (3.2.2)!

Forts are sticky: An activated Family in the same Area as a Fort that has not yet spent any MPs and wishes to move to an adjacent Area must spend MPs ≥ a die roll + the Value of the adjacent [destination] Area. Families in the same Area as a Fort cannot use the "move directly to Canyon de Chelly" option (3.2.3).

Forts inhibit Long Range Raiding: A Family stacked with a Fort cannot spend all of its MPs for a Long Range Raid on NM (3.2.5).

Forts are a source of Trade Goods, but at the cost of Culture Points: See Trade at Fort Action (3.2.7).

If both Forts destroyed, the player can win a Major Victory during the resolution of Kit Carson: "Rope Thrower" (6.2.3 Option 1).

Forts apply a +2 Conduct Raid DRM during the Kit Carson Campaign (6.2.3. Option 2, Step 4).

Forts inhibit collection of Military Points during Step 4 of the Victory Check Segment (8.2).

Forts inhibit collection of Culture Points during Step 6, and reduce Culture Points in Step 7 of the Victory Check Segment (8.2).

Forts do NOT add to Enemy Morale during a Victory Check Segment like Outposts!

If you have ANY Family in the same Area as a Fort, you CANNOT win an Automatic Victory! See 12.2.1.

Quote:
On a somewhat related note, during an enemy raid it is stated you add +2 raid counters during the American period but there is no mention of the bonus counters provided by forts. I'm sure it is a separate bonus but just want to make sure those are two separate instances.


That's because Forts don't provide a bonus. Forts impact Raids in other ways as summarized above.

-Joel
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Steve Carey
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That summary is very helpful, thanks Joel.
 
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Ralph Graham
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Regarding the "fort bonus" question, forts in the American period each provide a +1 bonus in raid counters because card 50 (Army of the West) will be in play. Are these in addition to the +2 specified on the Enemy Raid Flowchart in the Initiation box? Your answer seems to be that they are all independent, so there are 4 added if both forts are still functioning, right?
 
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