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Liberty Roads» Forums » General

Subject: Middle of Turn 2 - Allies are crushing. Is this normal? rss

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I finally got the courage to start my campaign game of Liberty Roads. The Allies landed in three beachheads in unoccupied (but with an intrinsic defense of 3) along Normandy. I lost two airborne divisions in paradrop, and took a step loss on an infantry division, but the invasion was really easy. You can see by the picture that the Allies have moved onto France, and it looks like Germany is sitting on their hands.

Is this normal? Will the end of operation fortitude result in a tide of German units? Should dday be so easy? I expected to get crushed on the beaches. I am fairly confident that I have played by the rules.

 
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Iain K
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BIG caveat, I haven't played the game in a couple years, but no, this does NOT look normal Bryan.

What looks bizarre is that there is no cordon of German units surrounding the Allied beachheads. That cordon usually exists where your Allied units are currently sitting, about 2 hexes from the landing beaches. It looks like units of the 7 Armee have not responded to the invasion at all ... and there is nothing prohibiting them from moving/responding immediately to the invasion. IIRC a few unit in the 15 Armee are also able to respond (without leaving their zone) and they should be right along the Orne.

So yes, I believe that something was played incorrectly.
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ugh, ok, glad I checked. I rolled a 6 for operation fortitde, and their was only one unit within 6 hexes i wanted to move, and I used it's movement points to move. The rules do not say you just pick it up and move it (like with the Reserve support).

Otherwise, I stayed the hell out of the 15th Armies sector so they wouldn't be allowed to move.

Im looking for some AARs that will help me figure out what i've done wrong.
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Iain K
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The Fortitude restrictions ONLY apply to zones without any Allied units in them Bryan.

Looking at the rules (1st edition).

14.1.2 ... "only units in an Army zone where Allied units are, units in Germany, and units appearing as reinforcements, can move normally."


So when you land in the zone of 7th Army -ALL- units in 7th Army are free to move normally - Operation Fortitude does not hinder ANY of them.

The Fortitude table indicates the number of ARMORED units IN OTHER ZONES which can move.

This is critical for the Allies since they want to cross the Orne early, but doing so frees ALL 15th Army units from Fortitude's restrictions.


For an example, look in the Exemple (sic) of Play Booklet (1st ed). Page 6, German movement Phase, first sentence: "During this phase only the units in the 7th Army sector and in Germany may be activated. There is no Fortitude test on turn 1."

The latter comment means that no units in zones outside the 7th Army's and Germany can move this turn.



It also appears that you haven't performed Reaction Movement properly after the invasion. Look at the picture on page 6 labeled "At the end of Reaction Movement" Note that the number rolled on the die is increased by 1 for each beachhead ... in the example a 2 is rolled, and it's increased by 3 beachheads to 5 units reacting. Re-read rule section 13.8.



Cheers!

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Yep, thanks for that. This is exactly what I did wrong. There should be 6 divisions of 15th Army crazed Germans flying across the river.

Damn. Time to reset the game. Practice makes perfect!
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Iain K
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Opps, I added the reaction movement comment after you'd commented. Make sure you check that as well.
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Colin Raitt
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I'm surprised it's gone this well. I think you're right that the Germans are sitting on their hands. They should be very busy little boys.

I festung 243rd and 709th in Cherbourg, that normally holds for 2 turns whilst absorbing most of the American strength, buying time to rebuild Hitlers Humeur before the loss of Cherbourg torpedoes it again and drawing Pluto in that direction (that also helps clear the port). I drag 12th SS panzer, 116th panzer and 711th infantry from 15th army into 7th using German landing reaction. I pay my support for german strategic movement on turn 1 to get 3rd falshirmjaeger and 353rd infantry into the bocage north of Avranches.

Normally a double stacked German line runs along the south of edge of the bocage through Caen and behind the Orne. Hopefully this will be the situation at the end of turn 1 except the Germans on the coast west of the Orne which got knocked back straight afterwards.
Your landing east of the Orne punches a hole in my scheme but maybe the Germans can recapture it. If I'm feeling cocky I leave a gap into 15th Army to lure the allies into releasing it.

Am I right to say only Americans have landed? I like to have a mix of UK and US so I can use all 3 replacement points, all 3 elites and any 9 of the 12 D-Day markers though you have to land a 2nd HQ to supply them.




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Iain K
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asmodeos wrote:

Damn. Time to reset the game. Practice makes perfect!


You show me a game that doesn't need to be reset during the first play (or more) and I'll show you a game that's not worth playing very many times!
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Beginning of Turn 2...after restarting the game. This looks a little more like it...

It is still easy to land on D Day.

Thanks guys!

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Kevin Davidson

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It still doesn't look like (to me) that your doing this correctly. Note that as soon as you have finished the resolution of all invasion landings the German player rolls a die to check his landing reaction (nothing to do with fortitude). Read 13.8. You don't take into account army boundaries etc. Just have to be within 6 of enemy unit to be able to react, note enemy unit not the beach head hex. Then the German gets to have his portion of Turn 1 (again without rolling on the fortitude table), look on the back of the Example booklet. The Germans are auto supply on turn 1 and get to perform movement with all units in Germany and the Army district you invaded. Also read the example invasion in the example booklet (especially top of page 6). That helped me a lot when first learning.

The current German reaction still looks to loose for the beginning of turn 2. Also remember that the invasion can only include infantry units and that the follow on units can only include one armor unit per beach head hex. Also note the restrictions of 13.3.4

Also you need to look at terrain chart carefully. Tanks are about useless in the bocage. Lastly, remember the allies can't do the 2nd invasion till August, so don't be shy moving to the Front to start out with.
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I appreciate you taking a look at my game state. I'm confident that although my strategies may be weak, I am playing the rules correctly.

zhodanicommando wrote:
It still doesn't look like (to me) that your doing this correctly. Note that as soon as you have finished the resolution of all invasion landings the German player rolls a die to check his landing reaction (nothing to do with fortitude). Read 13.8. You don't take into account army boundaries etc. Just have to be within 6 of enemy unit to be able to react, note enemy unit not the beach head hex.


Absolutely. I rolled for about 6 units within 6 hexes able to respond to the invasion. I consolidated units to the right of that beach hex to better contain that invasion on the beachhead, to prevent reinforcements there. I decided to create the front lines along the mountain ridge, rather than fill that beach hex. Granted, armor is weak in bocage, but that is a lesson I may learn the hard way. 5fj and a couple other infantry are en route.

Quote:
Then the German gets to have his portion of Turn 1 (again without rolling on the fortitude table), look on the back of the Example booklet. The Germans are auto supply on turn 1 and get to perform movement with all units in Germany and the Army district you invaded. Also read the example invasion in the example booklet (especially top of page 6). That helped me a lot when first learning.


Some infantry in the 7th has made a rush to the invasion, but I haven't completely abandoned the cities there. I am following the detailed play sequence on the back of the examples booklet. Only phases with a T1 are taken on turn one.

Quote:

The current German reaction still looks to loose for the beginning of turn 2. Also remember that the invasion can only include infantry units and that the follow on units can only include one armor unit per beach head hex. Also note the restrictions of 13.3.4


Yep, I definitely took that into account.

Quote:

Also you need to look at terrain chart carefully. Tanks are about useless in the bocage. Lastly, remember the allies can't do the 2nd invasion till August, so don't be shy moving to the Front to start out with.


Allies are counting on sea transport until the second invasion, but having used 3 of my beachheads already, the second invasion isn't going to do a whole lot except confuse the Germans. I'm thinking opening the med front. That is why the Germans have contained the beachhead next to the 15tharmy boundary. They are either stuck, or they free the German army.
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Colin Raitt
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Much better!

I suspect that all the americans are out of supply though. The visible HQ isn't on a supply route or supply source. Rule 4.1.1. Half move, attack and defense. Easy to avoid, just keep it on the beachhead or a road. I admit it's only a technical detail and a gentle opponent would let you correct it.

243rd infantry can get into festung on turn 1 by moving into Cherbourg in landing reaction so it is already there for the start of its movement phase.

The Germans in the open at the mouth of the Orne would be safer in the Bocage at Bayeux. I'm not sure if the gap north of Avranches is a clever way to concentrate the defenders and get the allies to overextend or a free breakthrough.

I agree about landing in the south of France because it gets those troops into the action just as you run out of men in England.

 
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Kevin Davidson

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Well done then. If the Germans are handled correctly you shouldn't be able to break out of Normandy till the end of July or early August.

I am almost done upgrading the Vassal module, Halloween got in the way a bit, but in a few more days I should have Market Garden scenario updated along with a few minor bug like fixes.

If you wanna have a go let me know.

Cheers
Kevin
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Awesome, vassal liberty roads sounds like a lot of fun. I'm sure I would get beat up by you guys!

I think I am going to restart again. Violating supply rules bugs me.

When I move a unit onto a Festung, when is the next possible time that I can roll to put it under the Festung marker? A unit not under the Festung, but on the hex, can be out of supply, correct?
 
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Colin Raitt
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We interpret rule 6.5 that you can only enter festung if you start your movement phase in the port even if it is already fortified.
 
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polate wrote:
We interpret rule 6.5 that you can only enter festung if you start your movement phase in the port even if it is already foirtified.


This is how I also understood the rule. Makes sense, although it is unclear.
 
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