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Subject: [DECK] Building A Better World - Supermodernism v.2 (Plugged In Winner, San Mateo) rss

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Martin Presley
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Supermodernism v2 hasn’t changed too much, but its effectiveness has been dialed up since Opening Moves supplied two powerful cards: Geothermal Fracking and Grim. The general play of this deck is a rush deck; you set up a remote quickly, with minimal central defenses, and push agendas through before the Runner can assemble their suite. Weyland’s agendas are amazing, and once one is scored, it often enables you to score more, by using Atlas counters, rezzing Archer, or just having crazy huge credit stacks. Flatline is largely a secondary consideration, but it is still essential, as the threat of it makes runners slow down or risk immediate death. You’ll find you rarely kill good players, but it still forces them to sacrifice tempo, and sometimes even the best players will make a fatal mistake.

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Agendas
False Lead x2
Geothermal Fracking x3
Government Contracts x1
Hostile Takeover x3
Project Atlas x3

Assets
Snare! x3 (6inf)

ICE
Archer x3
Bastion x2
Chimera x2
Enigma x3
Grim x3
Ice Wall x3
Wall of Static x2

Operations
Anonymous Tip x2 (2inf)
Beanstalk Royalties x3
Green Level Clearance x3 (3inf)
Hedge Fund x3
Scorched Earth x3
SEA Source x2 (4 inf)

- - - - - -
49 Cards - 3 Haas-Bioroid Influence / 6 Jinteki Influence / 6 NBN Influence


This deck really flies or falls in the first 5 or 6 turns, but because of the interchangeable nature of the ICE suite most hands can lead to success, though some take more finesse than others. You need to set up a remote that takes 2-3 breakers to beat ASAP and score an Atlas or Fracking. Don’t be afraid to score Atlas with just one counter if that means doing it a turn earlier; often one extra turn is all the runner needs. False Lead is a powerful and under-used card; I was surprised how many good players just forgot it was there, only to foolishly let a Government Contracts slip through their fingers or fail to remove a tag. I added a second SEA Source just the night before the tournament, and it worked well, enabling me to kneecap decks that rely on Kati Jones or Personal Contracts by using an undefended R&D as a honeypot for runs. Sadly it never showed up at the same time as Scorched Earth in my games, but it still did good work. Archer and Grim are a gruesome two-some, making quick work of breakers, especially the AI breakers which this deck is otherwise weak to. The BP never really factors into things, due to it not really having a large effect until the runner has their entire rig built, at which point the deck has probably lost the game anyway. I won my round 4 game with 7 BP (2 Hostile Takeover, Geothermal Fracking, and 3 Grim), a new personal best.

The toughest matchup here is probably a good Shaper with a traditional breaker suite, but there are thankfully few of those. The program searching and recursion means Chimera is a little lackluster and Archer and Grim are less effective (still very effective). Criminal is also tricky, but with Snare! and Scorched to punish early aggression and a disgusting amount of economy to recover from Siphon, it can give them a fair run for their money. Anarch is an easier time because of their reliance on Datasuckers and being a bit slower in general, but you still need to be wary of Vamp and other shenanigans. Atman decks are also very easy to trump, with Archer and Grim demanding a high-str Atman, Chimera forcing a zero strength, and everything else being in between.
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Greg Nordeng
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Looks solid, only one question. Why anonymous tip over Jackson Howard? I guess the advantage of Tip is that its slightly faster (no instal) and not trashable from RnD/HQ, but why not get those snares, scorches, or whatever else you need back in your RnD after using them? It's also reusable for drawing many times vs once for tip.

I don't want to be that guy that criticizes a winning deck, it is solid. I just don't understand if I am missing something with the tip.

Grats on 1st place, never a small feat.
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Martin Presley
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Nords3x4 wrote:
Looks solid, only one question. Why anonymous tip over Jackson Howard? I guess the advantage of Tip is that its slightly faster (no instal) and not trashable from RnD/HQ, but why not get those snares, scorches, or whatever else you need back in your RnD after using them? It's also reusable for drawing many times vs once for tip.

I don't want to be that guy that criticizes a winning deck, it is solid. I just don't understand if I am missing something with the tip.

Grats on 1st place, never a small feat.


It's massively faster, isn't trashable, and gives you more time to react to the influx of new cards. JH does something really cool, but sacrifices too much in terms of raw speed for this deck, especially since it has no other assets. It's an extremely good card, just not as good as some people make it out to be.
 
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Seth M
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Nords3x4 wrote:
Looks solid, only one question. Why anonymous tip over Jackson Howard? I guess the advantage of Tip is that its slightly faster (no instal)


If you run the numbers you'll find that Anonymous Tip is not slightly faster than Jackson Howard if all you want is more cards, right now, it is enormously faster.

With Anonymous Tip you have drawn 2 more cards than the amount of clicks you spent on it by spending a single click. That isn't the case for Jackson Howard until you have invested four clicks in it.

Jackson Howard does lots of good things (I came in 2nd in the San Mateo PIT right behind Martin, and I played him) but for pure speed of getting to the cards you need to win the game he's not even close.
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hoobajoo wrote:
Flatline is largely a secondary consideration, but it is still essential, as the threat of it makes runners slow down or risk immediate death. You’ll find you rarely kill good players, but it still forces them to sacrifice tempo, and sometimes even the best players will make a fatal mistake.


You mean like poor Rus when you were playing him at the table next to ours -- who forget to clear his Snare tag and got killed next turn? :P
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Greg Nordeng
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I think its as good as everyone makes it out to be, maybe just not best for your deck or play style.

Anonymous Tip =
Click - Draw
Click - Play
Gain 3 new cards (3 click value).

At the end of the day you are earning one click since the tip could have been one of the other cards you were looking for when you initially drew the Tip.

The "play" click could have been "Draw a card", so now you have one more extra card in hand than you could have had without playing the Tip. Tip is a great tempo booster, and you know your deck better than I, so it might in fact be best for you. But "massively" faster does not compute since it's barely better than not having it at all. 2 uses of Jackson is a wash and anything after 2 does in fact become massively faster and more efficient than 1 tip, and that's only considering the draw ability.

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Martin Presley
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AstroLad wrote:
hoobajoo wrote:
Flatline is largely a secondary consideration, but it is still essential, as the threat of it makes runners slow down or risk immediate death. You’ll find you rarely kill good players, but it still forces them to sacrifice tempo, and sometimes even the best players will make a fatal mistake.


You mean like poor Rus when you were playing him at the table next to ours -- who forget to clear his Snare tag and got killed next turn?


Exactly; Rus is an extremely good player, but tournaments are mentally taxing and he slipped up. Against another deck that might be bad, but against Weyland it means instant death.
 
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Erin OConnor
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I really like your set up here.

The distinct lack of asset cards means that there is no need to really set up and defend more than 1 remote server.

Anonymous tip. NICE!
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Martin Presley
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Nords3x4 wrote:
I think its as good as everyone makes it out to be, maybe just not best for your deck or play style.

Anonymous Tip =
Click - Draw
Click - Play
Gain 3 new cards (3 click value).

At the end of the day you are earning one click since the tip could have been one of the other cards you were looking for when you initially drew the Tip.

The "play" click could have been "Draw a card", so now you have one more extra card in hand than you could have had without playing the Tip. Tip is a great tempo booster, and you know your deck better than I, so it might in fact be best for you. But "massively" faster does not compute since it's barely better than not having it at all. 2 uses of Jackson is a wash and anything after 2 does in fact become massively faster and more efficient than 1 tip, and that's only considering the draw ability.



In a world where every card and click was equal, that might make sense. However, the advantage of compressing all those draws into a single click rather than 3 is large. And this deck needs to draw it's agendas quickly (a number which is largely set), so simply adding another card would in fact be qualitatively different. It also helps when you have ICE and no transactions, or vice versa, OR if you're trying to draw SE tech, making it supremely flexible.
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Greg Nordeng
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hoobajoo wrote:
Nords3x4 wrote:
I think its as good as everyone makes it out to be, maybe just not best for your deck or play style.

Anonymous Tip =
Click - Draw
Click - Play
Gain 3 new cards (3 click value).

At the end of the day you are earning one click since the tip could have been one of the other cards you were looking for when you initially drew the Tip.

The "play" click could have been "Draw a card", so now you have one more extra card in hand than you could have had without playing the Tip. Tip is a great tempo booster, and you know your deck better than I, so it might in fact be best for you. But "massively" faster does not compute since it's barely better than not having it at all. 2 uses of Jackson is a wash and anything after 2 does in fact become massively faster and more efficient than 1 tip, and that's only considering the draw ability.



In a world where every card and click was equal, that might make sense. However, the advantage of compressing all those draws into a single click rather than 3 is large. And this deck needs to draw it's agendas quickly (a number which us largely set), so simply adding another card would in fact be qualitatively different. It also helps when you have ICE and no transactions, or vice versa, OR if you're trying to draw SE tech, making it supremely flexible.


Thanks for the explanation. I am playing a rush style deck now, I will experiment with Anon Tip in it and see if it helps.

To be Devil's advocate, what about the argument of not supplementing it with an another card, i.e. just play with less cards. Your normal draws would be theoretically more qualitative, and will compound every time you draw a card. Thus the reason I play 40 cards in TWIY and don't play Tip.
 
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Evan
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Nords3x4 wrote:
To be Devil's advocate, what about the argument of not supplementing it with an another card, i.e. just play with less cards. Your normal draws would be theoretically more qualitative, and will compound every time you draw a card. Thus the reason I play 40 cards in TWIY and don't play Tip.


When the choice is between 49-card MN and 40-card TWIY, then sure, maybe, if you're getting as many cards as you need from the mandatory draw. But in a situation like this, I can't imagine that shaving 6% off your deck would have anywhere near the impact of running Tip.
 
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Corwin David
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Nords3x4 wrote:
To be Devil's advocate, what about the argument of not supplementing it with an another card, i.e. just play with less cards. Your normal draws would be theoretically more qualitative, and will compound every time you draw a card. Thus the reason I play 40 cards in TWIY and don't play Tip.


I remember hearing this exact explanation when I was 12 playing with a 75 card Magic:TG deck full of "great" cards. My dad explained to me why what I did actually made my deck worse, not better. I've been trying with my corp decks to play 45/40 instead of 49/44 to see if it made for more consistent draws.

... I can't really tell the difference.
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Corwin David
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Hoobajoo,

I really like what you have going on here. Seems really solid all around deck build. I have 2 questions:

1- Would you make any changes to the ICE package? I'm assuming no, but I'd be interested to know what changes you would consider.

2- When you say that you go light on centrals do you mean that you build a tower remote in the mean time? Staying around 1 ICE per central, or are you just letting them in places (in hopes they hit a Snare!)?
 
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Martin Presley
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DJhedgehog wrote:
Hoobajoo,

I really like what you have going on here. Seems really solid all around deck build. I have 2 questions:

1- Would you make any changes to the ICE package? I'm assuming no, but I'd be interested to know what changes you would consider.

2- When you say that you go light on centrals do you mean that you build a tower remote in the mean time? Staying around 1 ICE per central, or are you just letting them in places (in hopes they hit a Snare!)?


1. Not without spending influence. It's really dialed in; one of my big realizations was that Shadow and Caduceus were a waste, as they couldn't be used in a remote, and were slowing my game down.

2. Typically I would like to have 1 EtR ICE, to prevent early events like Indexing and Account Siphon, and eventually a Grim as second if I have some downtime mid-game. This isn't always possible, and it's a big part of what I mean when I say some hands require finesse. Sometimes the best option is to just work on a remote and let them have 1 card off of R&D, and hope you're not screwed. But hey, if the next 4 cards were all agendas, you were probably going to lose anyway in those situations.
 
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I'm glad to see a successful deck be so close to my Weyland deck (which I will be focusing on in lieu of Jinteki for a while).

The two differences though are that I have 2 Posted Bounty rather than your False Lead, which I use as a pseudo-Ronin to blow up resources or initiate SE. The other difference is the inclusion of Jackson, which allows me to recycle used scorches, which I find more useful than PGO for blowing up Plascretes.

Very nice deck. I'd say yours is a touch faster, though mine kills a bit more reliably. Congrats!
 
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hoobajoo wrote:
1. Not without spending influence. It's really dialed in; one of my big realizations was that Shadow and Caduceus were a waste, as they couldn't be used in a remote, and were slowing my game down.

2. Typically I would like to have 1 EtR ICE, to prevent early events like Indexing and Account Siphon, and eventually a Grim as second if I have some downtime mid-game. This isn't always possible, and it's a big part of what I mean when I say some hands require finesse. Sometimes the best option is to just work on a remote and let them have 1 card off of R&D, and hope you're not screwed. But hey, if the next 4 cards were all agendas, you were probably going to lose anyway in those situations.


Just curious what about Caduceus was slowing down your game.
Is it that both of the subs are trace for effect?
 
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Congrats on the win!

As you probably know, I've been playing a very similar Weyland rush deck, and most of the credit for inspiration goes to you.

One change I made which worked well during playtesting but never came up during the PI tour, was adding one closed accounts (instead of the 2nd sea source). My worst matchup is (of course) criminal, particularly tag-me criminal with scorch protection. My plan was to CA, install, advance to open up scoring windows against someone with too much cash. Seems to fit the deck strategy of looking for windows and powering through agendas.

Since I use Jackson Howard, I can also return it to my deck, search for it with an atlas counter, rinse & repeat.

Thoughts on that approach?
 
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Martin Presley
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Echo2Omega wrote:
hoobajoo wrote:
1. Not without spending influence. It's really dialed in; one of my big realizations was that Shadow and Caduceus were a waste, as they couldn't be used in a remote, and were slowing my game down.

2. Typically I would like to have 1 EtR ICE, to prevent early events like Indexing and Account Siphon, and eventually a Grim as second if I have some downtime mid-game. This isn't always possible, and it's a big part of what I mean when I say some hands require finesse. Sometimes the best option is to just work on a remote and let them have 1 card off of R&D, and hope you're not screwed. But hey, if the next 4 cards were all agendas, you were probably going to lose anyway in those situations.


Just curious what about Caduceus was slowing down your game.
Is it that both of the subs are trace for effect?


You can't use it for a remote, so it doesn't let you improve your situation re: agenda scoring, which is the primary mode for victory. It's much better in a deck that's more about exhausting the runner, like Never Advance or Big ICE.

aschneid wrote:
Congrats on the win!

As you probably know, I've been playing a very similar Weyland rush deck, and most of the credit for inspiration goes to you.

One change I made which worked well during playtesting but never came up during the PI tour, was adding one closed accounts (instead of the 2nd sea source). My worst matchup is (of course) criminal, particularly tag-me criminal with scorch protection. My plan was to CA, install, advance to open up scoring windows against someone with too much cash. Seems to fit the deck strategy of looking for windows and powering through agendas.

Since I use Jackson Howard, I can also return it to my deck, search for it with an atlas counter, rinse & repeat.

Thoughts on that approach?


I'd worry that it's largely useless outside of the Criminal tagme matchup, but otherwise that sounds reasonable. Kind of a marginal use of an Atlas in all but the most ideal circumstances as well.
 
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Great deck! -- I wish I had more of a chance to explore it during our game shake You may have noticed that I have a somewhat similar deck (which also did well at the SM plugged-in tour -- did I beat your runner with it?). The inclusion of Anonymous tip is ingenious, there are plenty of times when I spend 2-3 clicks drawing cards, and I somehow forgot that Anonymous tip exists!

Just like I forgot the aforementioned snare tag...

And confused Bastion with Datapike during the final round game with Seth M (which, with Seth's Yog, enabled unrestricted access to my R&D and possibly cost me a game!) Why do they look so similar?!

Sigh, I'm getting too old for this s--t

PS This reminds me of a perfect meme (please don't take this as a veiled comparison of me to Kasparov):

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rbelikov wrote:

PS This reminds me of a perfect meme (please don't take this as a veiled comparison of me to Kasparov)


I hope you didn't do that eyeball thing.... CREEPY!!! surprise
 
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Too bad we didn't get to play each other, but I'll be coming to your sacramento tournament, it seems like a strong meta out there.

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OddCrow19 wrote:
Too bad we didn't get to play each other, but I'll be coming to your sacramento tournament, it seems like a strong meta out there.



Exciting! Looking forward to it, though I probably will be playing some goof decks by then (they should still be good though).
 
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hoobajoo wrote:
OddCrow19 wrote:
Too bad we didn't get to play each other, but I'll be coming to your sacramento tournament, it seems like a strong meta out there.



Exciting! Looking forward to it, though I probably will be playing some goof decks by then (they should still be good though).


I'll bring my Chakana-Hostage-Source-Whizzard and my jinteki arcology AI fast advance. (...maybe not, but I might bring them for friendlies)
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I'm curious about only 1 government contracts. Doesn't having a 5/3 early in the game really accelerate a win? Is the risk too high or is there another reason it's only a 1-of?
 
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shango2 wrote:
I'm curious about only 1 government contracts. Doesn't having a 5/3 early in the game really accelerate a win? Is the risk too high or is there another reason it's only a 1-of?


My approach to agendas is the exact composition doesn't matter, as it doesn't change the average value of random access. What does matter is the quality of the agendas, and Hostile Takeover, Atlas, and Fracking all accelerate victory more than an agenda with an ability I rarely use. Keep in mind Atlas may as well be. 4/3 with the ability to search for Hostile Takeover.

The reason I have just one is mainly to search for with Atlas. There are moments where you can be reasonably sure the runner has no way in next turn, and being able to score 3 points instead of 2 (or 2 instead of 1 by sacrificing False Lead) is big. It will be replaced by a single The Cleaners when it comes out, as that has a much more relevant ability.
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