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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Update #7 rss

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Kirk Bauer
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Somebody's gotta do it... what does everybody think?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1034852783/shadows-of-br...
 
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I'm curious as to what add-ons will be offered (which by definition don't increase the value of the Mine Cart level) that will be good enough to spend the credit on. At the moment people can get, what, a 3rd copy of the core figures??
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Ess Why
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I just hope this means we can stop talking about mine cart gate.
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Erik Tengblad
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kirkbauer wrote:
Somebody's gotta do it... what does everybody think?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1034852783/shadows-of-br...


I think it is fine. FFP has stated why they can't add more $300 - $450 levels and offered a solution for those who feel slighted.

Now, I fully expect that this update will do nothing to decreases the outrage. As a matter of fact, I believe that having add-ons that will not be part of the Minecart levels is just going to add fuel to some peoples' fires.
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brian giese
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esswhy wrote:
I just hope this means we can stop talking about mine cart gate.


probably not. It is a fair thing to talk about.

It is an interesting option and I will need to think about how it will effect my pledge.
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Matt Price
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esswhy wrote:
I just hope this means we can stop talking about mine cart gate.


I'm pretty sure Monica Lewinsky is to blame.

I think their response was very reasonable. I suspect all or nearly all stretch goals as well as the add ons will be available for purchase with this credit (or by upping your Outlaw pledge) come campaign's end.

I reckon we won't see any add ons that won't be part of the Mine Cart (I don't count the extra heroes, that was a weird add on that felt like they were freakin' out at how quickly the pledge level was rising!)
 
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Matthew McFarland
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Jason gave a bunch of examples in his post, and there are already some extra non-cart addons. Basically extra copies of stuff in the game (sell it if you don't use it!). I have a mine cart and have already added some stuff, so it seems like a great compromise to me.
 
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Montgomery Van
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These guys are in for the long haul. The rage in the KS comments section is about to blow any minute.

All the while, the pledge levels continue to grow.

 
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Gláucio Reis
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I don't get it. They are giving credit for the pledge levels above $400 to make up for the difference. Why can't they simply offer more slots for the $400 level?
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Erik Tengblad
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GSReis wrote:
I don't get it. They are giving credit for the pledge levels above $400 to make up for the difference. Why can't they simply offer more slots for the $400 level?


Probably because $75 in add-on 'credit' does not equal $75 in real-world money. An add-on that has a MSRP of $10 does not cost $10 to manufacture.
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Gavin Meakings
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GSReis wrote:
I don't get it. They are giving credit for the pledge levels above $400 to make up for the difference. Why can't they simply offer more slots for the $400 level?


As a $475 pledge level with $75 of credit is much more affordable then a $400 pledge level with no credit as additional copies of addons can be produced relatively cheaply.

If they had an unlimited pledge level with no credit it would likely be around the $450 mark.
 
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Gláucio Reis
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Yes, guys, you are probably right. Maybe there isn't an ideal solution for everyone, but it is still weird, because that level is supposed to include everything and they are basically forcing backers to buy duplicates.

In any case, I'm not complaining, as it doesn't affect me. I'm still on the fence and, if I back this, it will likely be at the Outlaw level, which has the best value for money IMO - unless a $325 level opens up and I'm extremely lucky to grab it. I really hate this "early bird" crap.
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Erik Tengblad
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Well, they do have a little bit of wiggle room with the add-ons as the Minecart text says "virtually all of the Unique Add-Ons as they Unlock!"

Virtually being the important word, there. They COULD potentially have unique add-ons that are not part of the MC levels... but I can't imagine they would do that.
 
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Montgomery Van
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tengblad wrote:
... Virtually being the important word, there. They COULD potentially have unique add-ons that are not part of the MC levels... but I can't imagine they would do that.


But they've already done so with the extra Heroes, gender Variants, and blank cards; none of them are included in the mine cart level.

Or am I mistaken?
 
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Erik Tengblad
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Mont Van wrote:
tengblad wrote:
... Virtually being the important word, there. They COULD potentially have unique add-ons that are not part of the MC levels... but I can't imagine they would do that.


But they've already done so with the extra Heroes, gender Variants, and blank cards; none of them are included in the mine cart level.

Or am I mistaken?


Hm, I'm not sure about the blank cards, but the extra heroes and gender variants are not unique, as they are stretch goals that all MC backers will receive anyway. By 'unique' I meant things that are not available as anything other than add-ons.
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Justin Jensen
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That's about the best they could do I think. Since you only get 1 of the variant figures, you can buy extras and paint them differently if you think you'll need them, but I'm also expecting more 'no part of the MC' add-ons.
 
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William Gaskill
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I upgraded to MC as I got tired of figuring out which Add-ons
to get. Now they are having me chose $75 of credit on duplicate stuff

To bad it's not just a credit at FFP Store.

OD
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Anders Pedersen
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I think it is pretty ridicilous.
They do not want to lose money by giving a discount. So they offer store credits instead. That is a very small loss.
At the same time they have now changed the rules and are able to offer items that are not going to be part of the Mine Cart pledge level.
Now even the Early Birds are going to spend extra on the project.

FFP is increasing their profit by this move and most backers are padding them on the back!
Incredible!
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Chris Franka
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Old Dwarf wrote:
To bad it's not just a credit at FFP Store.


THIS.

This would have been a much better solution. If $75 of cardboard and plastic is $75 of cardboard and plastic, let me have some of the other games you make with that credit. Don't make me spend it on extra gate arches and pillars and tentacles and blank cards. Blank cards...really? $75 for blank cards? Come on.

If you put out $75 of unique content that adds to gameplay--i.e., it's not just cosmetic, and it's not something I have to write on with magic marker to make it work--and make that unique content something everyone has to buy, then I'll reconsider. But giving me $75 of duplicate items I'm already getting is useless.

Remember, we're talking about $75. Remember, people, most GAMES are less than $75. Most FULL GAMES are less than $75. You're giving me some cardboard and figures I'm already getting? That's not helpful.

In their defense, I thought the update was very well written. I think the developers have good intentions and explained their situation well. I'm actually ok with their explanation. And they came up with the best solution they could come up with given the situation they're in. But make it FFP store credit. Don't assume I want duplicated items from this kickstarter. Don't assume I'm ok with buying stuff and then trying to sell it right back to someone else and ship it and all just to make my money back. I hate that. It's a waste of my time. Give me the option to buy something that actually is a functional game or expansion and that I'm not already getting. Open it up for FFP store credit. I mean, cardboard and plastic is cardboard and plastic, right? If that's not acceptable, then that means that, like others have said, this $75 in KS credit they're offering is not worth the $75 in real money I'm putting into the KS, and that's not a solution.

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Gavin Meakings
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dbc- wrote:
I think it is pretty ridicilous.
They do not want to lose money by giving a discount. So they offer store credits instead. That is a very small loss.
At the same time they have now changed the rules and are able to offer items that are not going to be part of the Mine Cart pledge level.
Now even the Early Birds are going to spend extra on the project.

FFP is increasing their profit by this move and most backers are padding them on the back!
Incredible!


All gameplay addons will still be included within the mine cart level. The extra credit can be used for purchasing duplicate miniatures, blank cards, more terrain, custom dice, etc. No addons are going to be held back because of the credit.

The early birds get the exact same deal they had before. Later backers can get a few extra packs of dice, terrain, etc.
 
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Matthew McFarland
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They've floated the idea of adding other FFP games to the add-ons. I think many people, especially now that there's a bunch with extra money credits, would be very happy to see that.
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William W
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I want to be up in arms, but my gut reaction on reading this was, "Well, that seems fair". And, at this point, the people who are paying $475 will now get more than those who got in at the $325 MC. And really, people can turn around and sell / trade some of those add-ons down the road. $400 is still a bit high for a game, even if its the game in its entirety, but this seems to be a decent compromise.
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Joshua Russell
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esswhy wrote:
I just hope this means we can stop talking about mine cart gate.

Not even close, it's a terrible solution. And just shows this company's sleezballness
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Joshua Russell
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quadraphonic wrote:
I want to be up in arms, but my gut reaction on reading this was, "Well, that seems fair". And, at this point, the people who are paying $475 will now get more than those who got in at the $325 MC. And really, people can turn around and sell / trade some of those add-ons down the road. $400 is still a bit high for a game, even if its the game in its entirety, but this seems to be a decent compromise.


They'll get more stuff that they're already getting and don't need... are people really this dull that they don't see how lame of a deal this is? Just give people the mine cart for $400 and don't force them to buy $75 in stuff they don't want.
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James Hoover
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I'm not thrilled about the duplicate figures, but would much rather this than unique Add-ons outside of the minecart pledge. Opening up the credit to use in the FFG store is the only solution I would be 100% happy with. Duplicate figures are ok and I'll enjoy them if I must, but please don't sell me something that you originally intended to include in the MC lvl just to use up my credit!
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