Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Viceroys» Forums » Rules

Subject: Shipping Pipeline? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mike Smith
United Kingdom
Wigton
Cumbria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think I know the answer to this, but last time I played an opponent took the opposite tack to me.
Can you create a shipping pipeline so as to move cargo further than 10 squares in one turn? In other words can you drop off cargo with one ship and then pick it up in the same turn with another ship? With correctly placed ships you could thus keep passing the parcel all the way back to Europe in one turn.
I think XIV Bb clearly implies that you cannot - "If units that have not yet moved...".
My opponent said you could.
If you could it would actually feel right in some ways, as turns are kind of meant to be long periods of time, but it would radically improve the efficiency of far-flung colonial economies such as Asia, and the ability to defend them since you could send troops out to them quickly.
So what was the original intention?
Would it improve or break the game if I allowed it as a variant rule? You would still need to purchase enough ships to create a pipeline. It would make a an economic strategy much more viable against the existing dominant one of an exploration strategy. It might actually feel right. But it could be too good. On the other hand the existing Inflation rule would kick in to limit economic growth.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Smith
United Kingdom
Wigton
Cumbria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
.
Frustratingly, none of the detailed examples of play clarify the situation. The Spanish NPS treasure galleons are allowed to do this passing the parcel (XXXVIII U b), but I would argue that that is a special rule.

If allowed as a variant rule it should only be permitted at a friendly colony. That would feel right, since a la Potrtuguese you would need a string of bases along the route, as they indeed had in Africa allowing them to exploit Asia.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
upandawaygames.com
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It seems contrary to the spirit of the rules, but who knows. I see the designer is a BGG member -- perhaps you want to write to him directly?
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamedesigner/4595/mark-mcl...

If it were allowed would you permit, say Russia, to do it with their land forces?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Smith
United Kingdom
Wigton
Cumbria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I tried that but he has not been active on BGG for a long time!
We played an epic game today with 4 players. Great stuff! We used a more difficult version of the pipeline - you could pick up and carry cargo that had already moved only at a Fort or Citadel, and only by sea (and not if it had already moved by land). The game ended after 6 turns by a fluky die roll on 3 dice so nobody's infrastructure was advanced far enough to make it possible. I had a fort in Africa and a colony in India - but my son grabbed my fort and then the game ended. It felt right within the spirit of the game, since each turn is actually an indeterminate long time (we sort of imagined 5 years) and I don't think it would tip anything out of balance, given the strength of an exploring strategy. Remember the Spanish got resources home from the Phillipines in 1 to 2 years. First taken to Panama, then transhipped across to the Gulf where it joined the annual treasure fleet. With my rule this can be neatly recreated.
The real problem in the game that we exposed was the lack of clarity in the naval attack and intercept rules. It was not clear how to handle multiple naval stacks all in a position to fight or intercept in the same square. We muddled through with some ad hoc rulings, but the whole thing needs clarifying and carefully defining.
however, I love this game!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Smith
United Kingdom
Wigton
Cumbria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I see you have it in your top ten Rick. I like long and like rich historical flavour so I have to agree.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
upandawaygames.com
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You might like to try on Consimworld as he recently gave an interview there:
http://www.consimworld.com/post/57160196830/10-questions-wit...

Sounds you had quite a fun playing. Yes, been too long since I've had it on the table, but people seem bugged by the "piratical" interceptions that always seem to crop up in Europe.
http://spotlightongames.com/military/mnights/v.html#viceroys

And yes, I suppose there's plenty of work for the Rules Lawyer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Smith
United Kingdom
Wigton
Cumbria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
and the Waiter!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Johns
United States
Unspecified
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mantuanwar wrote:
I think I know the answer to this, but last time I played an opponent took the opposite tack to me.
Can you create a shipping pipeline so as to move cargo further than 10 squares in one turn? In other words can you drop off cargo with one ship and then pick it up in the same turn with another ship? With correctly placed ships you could thus keep passing the parcel all the way back to Europe in one turn.
I think XIV Bb clearly implies that you cannot - "If units that have not yet moved...".
My opponent said you could.
If you could it would actually feel right in some ways, as turns are kind of meant to be long periods of time, but it would radically improve the efficiency of far-flung colonial economies such as Asia, and the ability to defend them since you could send troops out to them quickly.
So what was the original intention?
Would it improve or break the game if I allowed it as a variant rule? You would still need to purchase enough ships to create a pipeline. It would make a an economic strategy much more viable against the existing dominant one of an exploration strategy. It might actually feel right. But it could be too good. On the other hand the existing Inflation rule would kick in to limit economic growth.


I'm not an expert on the rules, but in MOST games a unit or anything transported cannot "move" more than once in a turn. I don't have a problem with this idea, understanding that it is just a false construct or game mechanic. So, I would not allow it.

Cheers,
Jason
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Smith
United Kingdom
Wigton
Cumbria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes but many games with far-flung possessions allow some form of strategic redeploy through a shipping pipeline. As I have indicated its not inappropriate even though its the 16th Century not the 20th. From the rules its pretty clearly not allowed. But...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Fowler
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A stack can only move once, so the units, and colonies aren't transferring, why should gold? Once done moving a stack, your next move in the turn must move another stack that has not moved.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Smith
United Kingdom
Wigton
Cumbria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Because you can't exploit a world-wide trading empire otherwise, and thematically it feels wrong! The exploration side of the game is utterly dominant. I have since played, once, with a variant rule similar to the one above and it works I think.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.