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Subject: Using Jets rss

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Samson The Dragon
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Is this correct that if you're in Tokyo with this card (JETS)that you can not take any damage? Isn't this a Godmode card? Or is there something i'm missing? Just started to play this game.... and it's a lot of fun!
 
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Nico
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I also think Jets is too strong, but you're not invincible. You won't get damage when leaving Tokyo but once you're out you'll get normal damage. And you can use Jets only after an attack not after card damage.
 
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Michael Nerman
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Samson1976 wrote:
Is this correct that if you're in Tokyo with this card (JETS)that you can not take any damage? Isn't this a Godmode card? Or is there something i'm missing? Just started to play this game.... and it's a lot of fun!

I think you're missing something. In order to prevent the damage you must first, be in Tokyo and second, you must yield Tokyo when you would take said damage.
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Kevin
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Jets is the only card I have ever completely removed from a game because it's too overpowered. If someone really wants it, I'll play it as a one-use card that costs two energy.

Sure, there are two stipulations on its use: 1. Take damage in Tokyo, and 2. Yield Tokyo. But I've found that once you get down to two or three players, the one with jets inevitably wins based on attrition, and the game just drags on until that happens.
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Srdj
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That's the fun part of KOT, sometimes the game gets messy and out of hand, that's what makes KOT fun. When someone gets a overpowering card it's up to the other players to try to beat him and maybe team up on him. Its what makes the game fun.
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Samson The Dragon
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ZdadrDeM wrote:
I also think Jets is too strong, but you're not invincible. You won't get damage when leaving Tokyo but once you're out you'll get normal damage. And you can use Jets only after an attack not after card damage.


Ok so at least we can try to damage the player who is in Tokyo with card damage. I was thinking he could not be damaged from any source.

Thx for the input.
 
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Nico
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Cro1 wrote:
That's the fun part of KOT, sometimes the game gets messy and out of hand, that's what makes KOT fun. When someone gets a overpowering card it's up to the other players to try to beat him and maybe team up on him. Its what makes the game fun.


You're right, but if there are not the right cards to stop the player with the Jets, it's extremely annoying. This happens with Jets and with Wings.
 
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Kevin
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Cro1 wrote:
That's the fun part of KOT, sometimes the game gets messy and out of hand, that's what makes KOT fun. When someone gets a overpowering card it's up to the other players to try to beat him and maybe team up on him. Its what makes the game fun.


Yes, we usually team up on them. But when it gets down to just the Jets player and one or two others, it grinds out until Jets wins on attrition (in my experience). It's not a guaranteed win in larger groups, but in small groups I've found it to be too far out of balance.

I've never taken out or modified cards becuase they were unequal or unfair. So I'm more than okay with imbalance, and usually I find it challenging. Jets is just too much as written.
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Josh Trumbo
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Well, you can always let the player with Jets get cocky about it, whittle them down until they're at 1-2 health while stocking energy, and then wipe cards until you find an instant damage card and take them out.
 
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paul gildea
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It's not overpowered imo, as they have to leave tokyo and you can damage them then, and also with cards. People tend to gang up on that person also.
 
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Michael Nerman
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It depends on the situation. Late in a game, when there are only two or three players, someone could conceivably grab jets while in Tokyo, or get into Tokyo afterwards, and stay in there until they would otherwise die, possibly giving them 4 victory points to win.

This would be less effective in a larger group, where everyone might gang up on the player, or earlier in the game, where letting themselves fall to 3 or less health is going to make life very difficult for them.
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paul gildea
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True, however I dont think that is too OP, for instance they could have just bought a 4 vp awarding card and so on. When this card comes up and is bough we generally buy damage dealing cards and wipe the board to get even more. Along with having to leave tokyo if they dont want to take roll damage these really stops people from abusing this card.


It's a fun short game, I love how the cards can mess people up.
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Michael Nerman
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TarAldarion wrote:
True, however I dont think that is too OP, for instance they could have just bought a 4 vp awarding card and so on. When this card comes up and is bough we generally buy damage dealing cards and wipe the board to get even more. Along with having to leave tokyo if they dont want to take roll damage these really stops people from abusing this card.

When you compare it to a 4 vp card (which would cost 6, while Jets costs 5), it really puts it into perspective.

Of course, if you're playing with people who don't want to be in Tokyo, you can keep jumping in there and then leaving. In this way, no one will ever attack you from Tokyo and you'll never take damage from claws. I'd say Jets is significantly better than a 4 vp card for the cost.
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paul gildea
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nerman8r wrote:

When you compare it to a 4 vp card (which would cost 6, while Jets costs 5), it really puts it into perspective.

Of course, if you're playing with people who don't want to be in Tokyo, you can keep jumping in there and then leaving. In this way, no one will ever attack you from Tokyo and you'll never take damage from claws. I'd say Jets is significantly better than a 4 vp card for the cost.


Hi, I wasn't trying to imply that the 4vp card is better, just countering that jets is OP. A scenario was laid out where jets let you get 4vp and win, but there are plenty of strategies to get 4 vps and win that are not easily stopped.

Maybe I have just yet to see jets work too well, I've never seen somebody use it in an overwhelming way. I think this is mostly because people say things like, ok guys this guy has jets we can't let him stay in tokyo and even avoid damaging each other to inflict more damage on him. I have even healed a player, got them into tokyo to let them roll large claws against us all The best way are things like poison and damage cards, they really keep the jets player out of tokyo.

I agree it is indeed a much better card, however the usefulness of cards vs price varies greatly throughout the game. Something them game could use is buffing of some cards and weakening of others. I enjoy when cards have a chance to be destroyed. Like maybe something like, "if jets takes 3+ damage it gets destroyed if used" or "a player must roll to beat the damage taken or jets is destroyed"

I'd love more things like this on a lot of cards.
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Michael Nerman
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If you have opinions on which cards need to be made better or worse, I made a forum for that:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1037998/overpriced-or-underp...
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Kumar
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We were having a lot of fun with this game. But, last night was the first time this card came up. Someone bought it very quickly obviously.

It was a 6 player game. He got the card at the start pretty much. And it was pretty much game over from the start. He gets in Tokyo, if people rolled 1-2 attacks he'd stay and take it, then get the victory points for starting in there on his turn. Or if someone rolled 3 or more he'd just jump out Scott free. then he can roll hearts and only worry about getting attacked by 1 or 2 people possibly while he's out of Tokyo. There is no counter, we had 5 people trying to whittle him down, it was futile. He ended up winning via Victory points 3 of us had died and he was still on like 7 health. ridiculous. One of the other guys had 5 cards in front of him and that still didn't help us. We all agreed we will be removing that card from the game. Plus it only costs 5 energy to buy? There are a few other OP cards in there (Nova Breath comes to mind) but none of them bothered us like this one. And you usually have to pay 7-8 energy for them so it balances out a bit. The guy who had the "Jets" card, after winning, was like:

"Well, that victory didn't even feel good."

We all nodded in agreement
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Kumar
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plus heaps of the high victory point cards say something like:

"gain 3 victory points, and lose 5 health." or something to that degree, I don't have the card in front of me. I remember several like this though.

"Jets" has zero downside. Except maybe putting a huge Target on your back. Not that you can specifically target people in this game...
 
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Kumar
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TarAldarion wrote:

Maybe I have just yet to see jets work too well, I've never seen somebody use it in an overwhelming way. I think this is mostly because people say things like, ok guys this guy has jets we can't let him stay in tokyo and even avoid damaging each other to inflict more damage on him. I have even healed a player, got them into tokyo to let them roll large claws against us all The best way are things like poison and damage cards, they really keep the jets player out of tokyo.




That's what we did, I guess we'll have to try harder next time.

Plus that effects other things like, if we all are going for claws, then a lot of us won't be getting energy to buy cards or rolling Vic points.

I guess it's possible. But still, the fact remains, one (not so expensive) card, changes the game DRASTICALLY.

Don't get me wrong, we still really like this game, it's fun, silly, and addictive. Just has some balance issues.
 
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Alex Martinez
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Jets are not overpowered as long as you keep them in mind.

Simply put, you don't hit a monster with Jets with a lot of damage. You do only a little and use your other dice for victory points, healing, and energy.

The result is that, while a player can leave Tokyo to avoid damage, they are doing so with minimal benefit. If they DO leave, then they surrendered Tokyo and avoided one or two points of damage. If they stay, they can be nickel and dimed down pretty quickly.

Using this tactic, I have never found Jets to be overpowered.
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Kumar
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That is exactly what we did and he just outlasted and won on VPs.

So changing the game from a multiplayer melee to 5 VS 1 just to make it an even fight is not OP?

 
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Alex Martinez
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Go_Petunias wrote:
That is exactly what we did and he just outlasted and won on VPs.

So changing the game from a multiplayer melee to 5 VS 1 just to make it an even fight is not OP?



Interesting. I've never had the tactic fail, although anything's possible.

It also matters with the number of players. With two or three players, Jets do become consistently more powerful. Still, I've never had a problem with them. But it's your game, so you're free to remove any cards you don't like. If it gets in the way of enjoying the game, you should do just that.
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Kumar
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We'll leave it in. See how we go when it resurfaces. I do not doubt your words. It is good to see other people's opinions on the matter. Seems pretty evenly split. So I am thinking with a few more plays we will grasp better strategies perhaps.

Thanks everyone
 
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Alejandro Rascon
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Last game, We had 6 players.
when the jets guy left tokyo, the 2 monsters in tokyo concentrated fire. 7 damage to him before his turn came around.
he was a goner.
 
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Michael Nerman
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morgothrond wrote:
Last game, We had 6 players.
when the jets guy left tokyo, the 2 monsters in tokyo concentrated fire. 7 damage to him before his turn came around.
he was a goner.
Since that would kill just about anybody, that's not a good argument for jets being a fair card...
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Alejandro Rascon
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nerman8r wrote:
morgothrond wrote:
Last game, We had 6 players.
when the jets guy left tokyo, the 2 monsters in tokyo concentrated fire. 7 damage to him before his turn came around.
he was a goner.
Since that would kill just about anybody, that's not a good argument for jets being a fair card...


Regardless, the game is fair, card included and all, So what if damage was dealt all around, we still got the bugger..
If one jets guy sits and hoards points its the other player's fault. Also, it came down to 3 players so not everybody died.
 
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