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Neuroshima Hex!» Forums » Rules

Subject: Does Net Affect Armor? rss

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Hawk1061 Hawk1061
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If a unit with armor is netted, is the armor turned off?
 
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No, the armor remains in effect and it will still take multiple hits to destroy a netted armored unit.
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Hawk1061 Hawk1061
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Thanks for the quick reply zombie_homer.

Is there somewhere in the rules that 'proves' this? Otherwise, when I show him this response my buddy is just going to retort "that's just HIS interpretation of the rules" and not 'proof'.

Thanks.
 
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Tell your buddy some geek on BGG confirmed it on his iOS game
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Russ Williams
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hawk1061 wrote:
Is there somewhere in the rules that 'proves' this? Otherwise, when I show him this response my buddy is just going to retort "that's just HIS interpretation of the rules" and not 'proof'.

The proof is that the rules say what nets do, and the description of what nets do does not include disabling armor or toughness.

Otherwise your friend might as well argue "I netted one of your units, so I win the game! Hurray!" (The rules don't explicitly say that netting a unit causes you to win, but hey, if you disagree, that's just YOUR interpretation of the rules and not 'proof'...)
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Hawk1061 Hawk1061
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Thanks Russ, but can you cite the page in the rules where I can find the explanation that says armor and toughness are not diabled by a net?

We spent quite a few minutes looking for it to be clearly spelled out. Based off what we found, it's not crystal clear. There's room for intrepretation which way it could go.

Thanks
 
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Hugh Beringer
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In fairness to "his buddy," you can rest assured he would not have passed off experienced players' input with such a retort. When the forums were consulted, the answer was still fuzzy. Appropriately, later that night, "his buddy" played the scenario in question on the iOS version of the game and found that the armor is indeed not affected by the net. Problem solved. No big deal.


russ wrote:

The proof is that the rules say what nets do, and the description of what nets do does not include disabling armor or toughness.


While I agree this is the case, when reading the rules, I believe it does say that a net "disables adjacent opponents..." hence the need for clarification. Now that it has been clarified, life can resume happily.


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Pete Goch
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But, to put "his buddy's" mind further at rest the rules to go on to clarify that disabling means that the disable unit cannot act.

Quote:
Nets disable adjacent opponents, who cannot perform any actions themselves (like moving, attacking, pushing back, adding bonus abilities, etc.)


But says nothing about the unit's passive abilities like armor and toughness.

To be fair the rules should have just listed all disabled abilities. It wouldn't have been that hard.
 
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Russ Williams
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hawk1061 wrote:
Thanks Russ, but can you cite the page in the rules where I can find the explanation that says armor and toughness are not disabled by a net?

No; that's the point. Can you cite the page in the rules where it says that you don't immediately win by netting an opponent's piece? It's the same principle.


The net rule says "actions" are disabled. (Specifically, the rule I'm looking at for nets says "Nets disable adjacent opponents, who cannot perform any actions themselves (like moving, attacking, pushing back, adding bonus abilities, etc.)")

I guess you can debate about what an "action" is and try to argue that armor and toughness are somehow "actions". Admittedly the NH rules are often vague about terminology, but I think most people would consider armor and toughness to be more like "always-on" "abilities" or "attributes" than some kind of concrete of "action" which is an act which a unit explicitly "performs".

Note that elsewhere there is discussion about how "Since Modules work all the time, they do not have respective actions" and "If any unit’s action is slowed down to below that level (below 0), it is still treated as having the Initiative value of 0.", which gives further evidence that "always-on" abilities are not the same as "actions" which are explicitly performed.
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Yiorgos Golfinopoulos
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Net does not disable armor, as others have already said. If you want proof check the FAQ, I think it is mentioned there.
 
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Hawk1061 Hawk1061
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Thanks for the comments Hugh old buddy it's much better now.
 
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Hawk1061 Hawk1061
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russ wrote:
[q="hawk1061"]I guess you can debate about what an "action" is and try to argue that armor and toughness are somehow "actions". Admittedly the NH rules are often vague about terminology, but I think most people would consider armor and toughness to be more like "always-on" "abilities" or "attributes" than some kind of concrete of "action" which is an act which a unit explicitly "performs".


Spot on Russ, this was the point I was trying to make to my buddy last night, that things like armor and toughness are inherent to the unit and thus unaffected by the effects of a net.

However, as I was not able to find that in the rules or in any other posts, and as I did not want to continue to drag the evening on (wasted more than 10 minutes looking for clarification), I decided to play it my buddy's way, cancelling armor and toughness, ultimately losing the game by 1 point...
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Hugh Beringer
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hawk1061 wrote:
russ wrote:
[q="hawk1061"]I guess you can debate about what an "action" is and try to argue that armor and toughness are somehow "actions". Admittedly the NH rules are often vague about terminology, but I think most people would consider armor and toughness to be more like "always-on" "abilities" or "attributes" than some kind of concrete of "action" which is an act which a unit explicitly "performs".


Spot on Russ, this was the point I was trying to make to my buddy last night, that things like armor and toughness are inherent to the unit and thus unaffected by the effects of a net.

However, as I was not able to find that in the rules or in any other posts, and as I did not want to continue to drag the evening on (wasted more than 10 minutes looking for clarification), I decided to play it my buddy's way, cancelling armor and toughness, ultimately losing the game by 1 point...



As Russ talks about debating actions and abilities, and as Hawk goes on, rather dramatically, about losing a game, it is important to keep perspective. The rulebook that states a net "disables an adjacent opponent" was being discussed by Hawk and "his buddy." Not whether certain parts of a unit were different from other parts of a unit. I'm pretty sure "his buddy" would say that a unit being disabled was the sticking point. Not what part of the unit is disabled, but that the unit was disable. Nevertheless, now we know. And, unfortunately, the rules can be vague at times.

I can also be sure that "his buddy" would point out that playing a game with friends is what's fun...not who wins.

Moving on...
 
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Hawk1061 Hawk1061
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SMLE wrote:


I can also be sure that "his buddy" would point out that playing a game with friends is what's fun...not who wins.

Moving on...


While playing a game with friends IS fun, winning the game is "icing on the cake".

 
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