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Subject: Orson Scott Card on Ender's Game movie boycott rss

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Card:

“I’ve had no criticism. I’ve had savage, lying, deceptive personal attacks, but no actual criticism because they’ve never addressed any of my actual ideas."

“Character assassination seems to be the only political method that is in use today, and I don’t play that game, and you can’t defend against it. All you can do is try to offer ideas, and for those who want to listen to ideas, great."

"For those who simply want to punish you for not falling in line with their dogmas, there’s really not much you can do about it.”






The movie Ender's Game opens this Friday. I've been looking forward to it for a long time, but RT 59% rating so far is a bit diappointing.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/enders-game/

I for one will boycott this intolerant boycot and see the movie. In my opinion Card is being attacked for his personal religious views.

As a Mormon, I can say for the record that Card's statements are more extreme than the official church position.
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/same-sex-attraction

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tesuji wrote:
but RT 59% rating so far


It's 69%
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Leave the closeted gay dude alone. Just because he self-loathes is no reason to pile on.
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I'm not boycotting; I've just no interest in seeing the movie. Much as I love science fiction, I found Card's writing simply too sexually explicit for my tastes. I really don't need the fine details about exactly what a character does when masturbating, thanks.
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Of course he is being attacked for his personal religious view (or to be more precise his support for laws that force them on others). That is the whole point, "we (those who disagree with him) will not provide you (or your products) with our patronage, as we think you will use this money (and your position) to propagate a message we disagree with".

Really not seeing how this goes against the idea that if you disagree with how a commercial entity operates you do not give it your custom.
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whac3 wrote:
I'm not boycotting; I've just no interest in seeing the movie. Much as I love science fiction, I found Card's writing simply too sexually explicit for my tastes. I really don't need the fine details about exactly what a character does when masturbating, thanks.


Er... I don't remember that part of Ender's game.
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tesuji wrote:
Card:

“I’ve had no criticism. I’ve had savage, lying, deceptive personal attacks, but no actual criticism because they’ve never addressed any of my actual ideas."


Card is either lying or in severe denial. Have there been personal attacks? Sure. But "no criticism"? Bullshit. There have been a number of thoughtful articles pointing out that, for example, Card once publicly called on the State to use anti-sodomy laws to coerce gay people into abstaining (ideally) or, at the very least, staying hidden. Card has argued that this was really a progressive thing of him to say, since he was talking to an even more anti-gay audience and because -- for reasons I don't think he's ever given -- he sort of no longer advocates this.

Quote:
In my opinion Card is being attacked for his personal religious views.


I disagree. There are lots of people who believe that same-sex marriage is wrong who are not boycotted. Card went beyond mere religious expression to advocating the imprisonment of gay people in order to coerce other gay people's behavior.

If that's going to be conflated with all other "personal religious views" then what would you say goes beyond that?
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Card is like so many angry extremists. His own hateful words are "ideas" that others should respectfully agree or disagree with. Any blowback is just the worst, most hateful thing ever and completely empty of any content worth responding to.
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Card would help himself most by not talking about it.

tesuji wrote:
I for one will boycott this intolerant boycot and see the movie. In my opinion Card is being attacked for his personal religious views.


Personal religious views should not be exempt from criticism.

I've read many of his books and will see the movie eventually, but I've lost a great deal of respect for the man after reading his statements. In general, I try to keep the art separated from the artist, but when they use their notoriety to promote things I find objectionable, it can affect my future support of them.
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jonnylawless wrote:
whac3 wrote:
I'm not boycotting; I've just no interest in seeing the movie. Much as I love science fiction, I found Card's writing simply too sexually explicit for my tastes. I really don't need the fine details about exactly what a character does when masturbating, thanks.


Er... I don't remember that part of Ender's game.

It was the Worthing Saga.
 
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jonnylawless wrote:
whac3 wrote:
I'm not boycotting; I've just no interest in seeing the movie. Much as I love science fiction, I found Card's writing simply too sexually explicit for my tastes. I really don't need the fine details about exactly what a character does when masturbating, thanks.


Er... I don't remember that part of Ender's game.

Nothing like this in the book, or the movie either I assume. Card's explicitness also makes me (and many other Mormons I know) uncomfortable. Too Much Information
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tesuji wrote:
jonnylawless wrote:
whac3 wrote:
I'm not boycotting; I've just no interest in seeing the movie. Much as I love science fiction, I found Card's writing simply too sexually explicit for my tastes. I really don't need the fine details about exactly what a character does when masturbating, thanks.


Er... I don't remember that part of Ender's game.

Nothing like this in the book, or the movie either I assume. Card's explicitness also makes me (and many other Mormons I know) uncomfortable. Too Much Information

I've not read any of the Ender books, although they're classics, but TMI is my attitude from the book of his I did start.
 
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Geosphere wrote:
tesuji wrote:
but RT 59% rating so far


It's 69%


Which for a Science Fiction movie on RT prior to release, is pretty good.
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I am boycotting the commercial for the movie, the fuckwits who cut those ruined the best reveal of the movie ! at no time are we supposed to see him involved in a real battle with real aliens, its all supposed to be a game that is revealed at the end to be real. what the fuck is wrong with these promo directors. its like they never read the book.


I can only imagine if these fuckers had done the commercial for empire strikes back or the six sense.....

but yeah, no way I boycot anyone's art based their religious beliefs. again, the "most tolerant" people in the world are proving that they are in fact the least tolerant asshats. shake
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jeremycobert wrote:
I am boycotting the commercial for the movie, the fuckwits who cut those ruined the best reveal of the movie ! at no time are we supposed to see him involved in a real battle with real aliens, its all supposed to be a game that is revealed at the end to be real.


I thought that too when I saw the trailers, but I have a feeling everything we see in the trailers is simulations.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
I am boycotting the commercial for the movie, the fuckwits who cut those ruined the best reveal of the movie ! at no time are we supposed to see him involved in a real battle with real aliens, its all supposed to be a game that is revealed at the end to be real. what the fuck is wrong with these promo directors. its like they never read the book.


I can only imagine if these fuckers had done the commercial for empire strikes back or the six sense.....

but yeah, no way I boycot anyone's art based their religious beliefs. again, the "most tolerant" people in the world are proving that they are in fact the least tolerant asshats. :shake:
Lets say it again, he is not being boycotted for his religious beliefs, he is being boycotted for using his position (and money) to promote (and discriminate against people) laws based upon them. If you want to use your position to push an agenda expects its targets to push back.

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jeremycobert wrote:
but yeah, no way I boycot anyone's art based their religious beliefs. again, the "most tolerant" people in the world are proving that they are in fact the least tolerant asshats. shake

Why do you hate the free market system so much?
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
Card is like so many angry extremists. His own hateful words are "ideas" that others should respectfully agree or disagree with. Any blowback is just the worst, most hateful thing ever and completely empty of any content worth responding to.

I partly agree with you. Card is right to be angry about things like gay marriage, in my opinion. It's a mockery of what marriage means - the union of a man and a woman. Traditional marriage is the foundation of society, and gay sex is wrong. Of course this is not currently a popular view, I realize.

But Card is overzealous - too much Old Testament and not enough New Testament if you get my meaning. In the Old Testament adulterers are condemned to death.

In the New Testament Jesus said to love your neighbor and not to judge them, not to "cast the first stone" etc. You may vocally (and politically, I add) disagree with their wrong choices, and grieve for the consequences you expect they will suffer, But no hateful attacking.

For the gay advocates it all appears to be about equal rights. For Christians its about following God's commandments and what they think is best for society. It shouldn't be about hate and abuse - although I know for some people thing politically opposing something feels the same as hating.
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jmilum wrote:
Why do you hate the free market system so much?


for the same reason you hate freedom so much...
 
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tesuji wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Card is like so many angry extremists. His own hateful words are "ideas" that others should respectfully agree or disagree with. Any blowback is just the worst, most hateful thing ever and completely empty of any content worth responding to.

I partly agree with you. Card is right to be angry about things like gay marriage, in my opinion. It's a mockery of what marriage means - the union of a man and a woman. Traditional marriage is the foundation of society, and gay sex is wrong. Of course this is not currently a popular view, I realize.

But Card is overzealous - too much Old Testament and not enough New Testament if you get my meaning. In the Old Testament adulterers are condemned to death.

In the New Testament Jesus said to love your neighbor and not to judge them, not to "cast the first stone" etc. You may vocally (and politically, I add) disagree with their wrong choices, and grieve for the consequences you expect they will suffer, But no hateful attacking.

For the gay advocates it all appears to be about equal rights. For Christians its about following God's commandments and what they think is best for society. It shouldn't be about hate and abuse - although I know for some people thing politically opposing something feels the same as hating.
Even you disagree with card, yet claim he is a victim (in effect) of intolerance. That is the point, even by the standards of Christianity Card is a bigot of the worst kind, who just uses religion as a justification for his bigotry. This is why he is being boycotted, it's not that he considers gayness a sin, it's that he actively and vocally hates it.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Why do you hate the free market system so much?


for the same reason you hate freedom so much...
Your the one saying people should not do something.
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Geosphere wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
I am boycotting the commercial for the movie, the fuckwits who cut those ruined the best reveal of the movie ! at no time are we supposed to see him involved in a real battle with real aliens, its all supposed to be a game that is revealed at the end to be real.


I thought that too when I saw the trailers, but I have a feeling everything we see in the trailers is simulations.


In the trailer I saw before Gravity the other day they pretty much gave everything away. Of course having already read the book it wasn't going to be a surprise anyway, and maybe it's not so obvious to someone who hasn't read it. Still, I think they revealed too much.
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I don't give a fuck about Card. If I boycotted the art of every artist whose views I find objectionable there wouldn't be much art in my world.
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SabreRedleg wrote:
I don't give a fuck about Card. If I boycotted the art of every artist whose views I find objectionable there wouldn't be much art in my world.
That is what personal choice is all about, no one is making you boycott it.
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Shoot, I like my writers crazy. The crazier the better.

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