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Subject: Some pre-game queries rss

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Neil Walters
England
Orpington
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Just a few queries from a first read of the rulebook prior to hopefully playing K&K later this week.

1. Are the 3 workers, that can be bought as an additional action, placed immediately according to the miner "insertion" rule and/or contribute to flipping the pithead cards?

2. What happens to miners on the disaster spaces at the end of the mine disaster phase. Are they left in the space for later redeployment?

3. The rules specifically mention the benefit of the 2nd miner icon on the mine cards, but not the first miner. I assume the first one is just taken from the pool and placed according to the miner insertion rules?

4. A few of the small mines such as 2 of the Victoria mines showing a wagon as a bonus are only available to be bought in the same turn they are due to be consolidated. Unless I'm missing something I fail to see how you can benefit from the wagon bonus on the Loading pithead card as this phase comes after the consolidation phase when small mines are scrapped and out of the game.

Thanks in advance for your help.


 
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Ludwig Seitz
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Banker wrote:
Just a few queries from a first read of the rulebook prior to hopefully playing K&K later this week.

1. Are the 3 workers, that can be bought as an additional action, placed immediately according to the miner "insertion" rule and/or contribute to flipping the pithead cards?



They are just placed in your supply, and can be used only to flip the pithead cards and to activate the loading card. Note that they do not count as miners.

Quote:

2. What happens to miners on the disaster spaces at the end of the mine disaster phase. Are they left in the space for later redeployment?


No they are left there for the rest of the game (they died in the disaster).

Quote:

3. The rules specifically mention the benefit of the 2nd miner icon on the mine cards, but not the first miner. I assume the first one is just taken from the pool and placed according to the miner insertion rules?


You remove a second worker from a village and place it in your supply, then you get an additional miner (in addition to the one that you placed to mark ownership of the mine) which you can place anywhere.

Quote:

4. A few of the small mines such as 2 of the Victoria mines showing a wagon as a bonus are only available to be bought in the same turn they are due to be consolidated. Unless I'm missing something I fail to see how you can benefit from the wagon bonus on the Loading pithead card as this phase comes after the consolidation phase when small mines are scrapped and out of the game.


The consolidations happen in phase 9, you get to use the wagons in phase 8.



Hope it helps
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Neil Walters
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Thanks for your response Ludwig. I'm wondering if there's an element of loss of translation though from the German to English rules, as some of your points are not specifically covered in my reading of the English.
In particular:

1. You mention a supply that presumably is a totally separate area from your initial pool of workers. Is that right? Can this "supply" be held over for future turns? The rules give no hint of this or indeed what the workers can be used for.

2. Yes this makes sense. The rules don't mention what happens to them so by implication they stay put for the duration of the game. Equally I could argue that the miners made a miraculous recovery and can be redeployed in a future turn!

3. Yes I get it now. The term 2nd miner confused me. So the 1st miner is the one that claims the mine, and the 2nd miner is the potential bonus subject to an adjacent grey worker being available.

4. Actually the scoring of the pithead cards including the Loading card that requires the wagons is phase 10. Phase 8 is the on-board scoring. So still looking for an answer to this one.

Perhaps Uli can clarify.
 
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Ludwig Seitz
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Banker wrote:
Thanks for your response Ludwig. I'm wondering if there's an element of loss of translation though from the German to English rules, as some of your points are not specifically covered in my reading of the English.

First of all: I got an explanation by the author, read the German rules and checked your points against the English rules. I didn't read the whole English rules though, so I might have missed something.

Quote:

In particular:

1. You mention a supply that presumably is a totally separate area from your initial pool of workers. Is that right? Can this "supply" be held over for future turns? The rules give no hint of this or indeed what the workers can be used for.

I think you are confusing workers (the grey cubes) with miners (the coloured cubes belonging to a specific player). As far as I could see the English rules where quite consistent with the German ones on this point.
When you take workers from the map, you keep them in a separate pool in order to use them either to flip the pithead cards, or to activate the Loading card, or to swap against money.
Your miners are a separate pool, which you cannot use to do the things above.

Quote:

2. Yes this makes sense. The rules don't mention what happens to them so by implication they stay put for the duration of the game. Equally I could argue that the miners made a miraculous recovery and can be redeployed in a future turn!

I will generally interpret rules like this: If they don't explicitly say you should do something, you don't. They don't explicitly say you should take the miners back, so you don't.

You're of course free to have your own interpretations, but I have an impression that mine is quite common.

Quote:

3. Yes I get it now. The term 2nd miner confused me. So the 1st miner is the one that claims the mine, and the 2nd miner is the potential bonus subject to an adjacent grey worker being available.

Right, but remember you already need a worker to place the first miner (the one that claims the mine). You pick this worker from an adjacent village space. If there are none, the claiming miner must come from an adjacent village of your colour that you built earlier.

Quote:

4. Actually the scoring of the pithead cards including the Loading card that requires the wagons is phase 10. Phase 8 is the on-board scoring. So still looking for an answer to this one.

Right, my bad.


It's actually good to have this discussion, reduces the chances I will explain the game wrong tonight
 
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Neil Walters
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Thanks again for responding Ludwig. I'm glad we're having this discussion as well, as otherwise there's little doubt we wouldn't be playing it right tomorrow night!

1. Your right that I was confusing the two. My initial thoughts were that they came off the board and out of the game but I can see now that they are kept and used. So essentially there are separate player and a central pool of grey "workers".

2. Perfectly comfortable with your interpretation thanks.

3. Exactly so.

4. Hopefully Uli can enlighten us.

Really looking forward to playing this, and hope it lives up to my initial impressions.

Regards

Neil

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Klaus Knechtskern
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Banker wrote:
Thanks again for responding Ludwig. I'm glad we're having this discussion as well, as otherwise there's little doubt we wouldn't be playing it right tomorrow night!

4. Hopefully Uli can enlighten us.

Really looking forward to playing this, and hope it lives up to my initial impressions.

Regards

Neil



I am not Uli and Uli is quite busy right now as he is moving, but I like to chime in as I have played the game a couple of times.

In fact there is no direct bonus you got from the wagon; however keep in mind you score the points before the consolidation and in fact can only participate in the consolidation process if you are present in the minefield.
 
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Wolfram Janich
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Reagarding 4

Are all large mines going to be consolidated or just one each turn (3-5)?
 
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Ludwig Seitz
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All mines that are eligible for consolidation (starting with turn 3) are consolidated.
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Jesse McGatha
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KlausKnechtskern wrote:
In fact there is no direct bonus you got from the wagon; however keep in mind you score the points before the consolidation and in fact can only participate in the consolidation process if you are present in the minefield.


I also believe this is the case.

I don't have the game in front of me to confirm, but I thought that this "extra" wagon also appears on the large mine card, so if you win the consolidation you "keep" it. I think of it as a thematic explanation of where the extra wagon came from. Would be interested if anyone could confirm this.
 
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