Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: Thomas Haas - Less than useful? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Daniel Wray
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
When I first saw Thomas Haas, I was fairly excited. An advance-able asset economy card? Double your money for each advance? Nice!

Much later, after it had made its way into one of my decks, something struck me. Is this really a money maker? An advancement counter takes a click and a credit. Each counter gets me two credits when I trash Thomas.

That's a net gain of... zero. Add in the click to install and the credit to rez, and the card played straight up has a net loss of 2 credits compared to just clicking for credits. Terrible economy.

I have pulled them all from my decks and convinced my buddy to do the same. I'm curious, given this, if people have found more utility for this dubiously inefficient card. Is there something I'm not seeing?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Ostman
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You've got the main point. However, he acts as sort of a bank. A place to stash your cash and keep it safe. It's good protection against things like Account Syphon.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Berton
Canada
flag msg tools
He's a safe way to lure the Runner into costly runs. I haven't been able to make much use of him yet, but I haven't had many chances.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin W.
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Plus, don't forget that you can trash him for the cash after the runner has run on the server he's in-and paid to get through all the ice. Think of him as an ambush that hedges your bets- it does less damage if the runner decided to run, but you get your money back if the runner doesn't run.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Dilloo
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
badge
The Ginger Ninja
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, not really an economy card, but he is great in Jenteki, where he not only disguises as trap/agenda, but also hides that you have enough money to activate a trap.

Also, he holds your money if siphons/vamps are going around.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate K
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you can advance it without spending credits (Simone Diego) or without spending a click (Matrix Analyzer) than good ol' Tommie can be a huge economy card. See this video to see that idea in action.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Wray
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
kurthl33t wrote:
If you can advance it with spending credits (Simone Diego) or without spending a click (Matrix Analyzer) than good ol' Tommie can be a huge economy card. See this video to see that idea in action.


I'll check out the video, but that thought had crossed my mind. It just seems like using those advance-efficiency cards (Psychographics, Trick of Light) just to get credits is not optimal. I would think there are better uses for them, like scoring agendas.

I see the possible use as a distraction, or even better as an economy bluff. This may have use in my Jinteki deck yet.

Thanks, these are the thought processes I wanted to see.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
San Jose
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Stop me if you've heard this one before: Could be a decent Asset if the Trash cost wasn't so low.
1 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Dilloo
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
badge
The Ginger Ninja
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
AstroLad wrote:
Stop me if you've heard this one before: Could be a decent Asset if the Trash cost wasn't so low.


.....but you can trash him, and take the cash, before they access, right? As long as he is installed, anyway.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Presley
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As some other people have said, Thomas Haas is not an economy card, he's a low-risk, low-reward trap card; the risk to the corp is low as he'll only come two credits behind (instead of 5 on most failed traps), but the reward (a credit-draining run on a remote) is also pretty low, since all trap cards do this. He does have other marginal uses, but baiting runs at remotes is why you put him in a deck.

If you're looking for a card like T.Haas but primarily for economy, check out the upcoming GRNDL Refinery. It's precisely what you were looking for.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Drake Villareal
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
Thomas Haas is bait.

Inside Job, Stimhack, Tinkering etc. T-haas is the bait you use to fish these bad boys out, and recoup your losses as they waste a precious card, time, and money.

Also, Thomas Haas is GREAT with Successful Demo.

Drop and dbl advance tommy in a 2 ice deep server. (or deeper)

When they run it, let them break through the first ice, then pop him and trash him (emptying the cards in the server).

The runner sees the next ice, decides the run isn't worth it, and jacks out, allowing use of S-Demo.

15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Contig the fallen
United States
flag msg tools
Keen to the scent -- the hunt is my muse. A means to an end, this path that I choose
badge
Wake the White Wolf! Remembrance At Last (by Miracle of Sound)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tberton wrote:
He's a safe way to lure the Runner into costly runs. I haven't been able to make much use of him yet, but I haven't had many chances.


The original post has been mentioned multiple times since he came out, and this is always the reply. He's basically a trap that you get your money back from, and the runner doesn't.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Dilloo
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
badge
The Ginger Ninja
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OddCrow19 wrote:
Thomas Haas is bait.

Inside Job, Stimhack, Tinkering etc. T-haas is the bait you use to fish these bad boys out, and recoup your losses as they waste a precious card, time, and money.

Also, Thomas Haas is GREAT with Successful Demo.

Drop and dbl advance tommy in a 2 ice deep server. (or deeper)

When they run it, let them break through the first ice, then pop him and trash him (emptying the cards in the server).

The runner sees the next ice, decides the run isn't worth it, and jacks out, allowing use of S-Demo.



That is brilliant. Like that a lot. Now to find space for Successful Demo in my Jenteki deck!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
San Jose
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
bigloo33 wrote:
AstroLad wrote:
Stop me if you've heard this one before: Could be a decent Asset if the Trash cost wasn't so low.


.....but you can trash him, and take the cash, before they access, right? As long as he is installed, anyway.

No, sorry, I mean from R&D. In the current state of the game I hate having leaky R&D.
2 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Witold Jakubowski
Poland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thomas proved himself useful to me when runner run central server thinking of me not having creds for big ice. Bum! The four times advanced card left there is not a trap, it's Thomas who let me rez Heimdall 2.0 or smth. Surprise Janus on runners last click can be a bummer!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ony Moose
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
He's also excellent against Vamp->R&D Medium pillage as you can unexpectedly get money back from your failed trap!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Rubin
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As has been mentioned, he can become an economy card with Simone/Matrix Analyzer. But that's not the point. The point is to get the runner to run. You spent all those credits and clicks to setup a remote server and rez ICE on it. You WANT the runner to run into those ICE.

Imagine the Archer/Tollbooth as a bed of spikes. You want to drag the runners body back and forth across the spikes and screw them up. If you only install behind the ICE a few times when you have an agenda, you aren't getting your money's worth out of those ICE. Thomas Haas can get the runner to run the remote without any risk to the corp in terms of points or money.

Oh, why not use Junebug then, since that actually hurts the runner? Well, yes use Junebug. But don't think Thomas does no damage. The damage is all the things that happened to the runner caused by the ICE, and maybe upgrades, on that server.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Corwin David
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As mentioned above, I have found him most useful in Jinteki builds with ambushes and Trick of Light. It's also great because if they don't run on it (because they think it's a trap) and decide to run a central, he can be popped to have backup credits for snare or to land the killing blow with Scorched.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Micheal Keane
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Pictured: Rags Raggerson, successful businesscat
Avatar
mb
Thomas is going to be great behind Odin/Wotan/Whatever. Bait the runner into trashing programs and taking brain damage before you cash out.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Jones
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
Thomas is very good at skimming off the top of Shipments, though. Shipment from Kaguya? Shipment from SanSan (in Second Thought)? Now he is a money card. Sometimes, it's just too early.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Jones
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
beepers wrote:
It's definitely not an economy card, unless you're running a Psychographics HB (which is mad good, by the way. Overadvance a Victrivius to get yourself Psychographic over and over, or Psychographic to over advance an Aeris for a "All Programs Deserve to Die" wipe, or hell, just hitting the advancement req for Mandatory Upgrades/Efficiency Committee, which have effects that can pay for themselves).
I'm thinking more the reverse. Tommy Haas would be good in NBN, who already tags like crazy. HB has... what, Ichi and the neutrals to tag? I don't know of any HB tag punishment cards, either.

...I mean, Thomas is only one influence.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brodie
United States
KC
Missouri
flag msg tools
mb
beepers wrote:
Thomas being good against Vamp/Siphon is an iffy statement. Runners will want to hit you down the 0 so that you can't rez your ICE protecting it/trigger your trap, if said advanced card is one. So if you do get leveled to 0, you can't trigger his effect, so the money on him is lost. He's a trap for people who want to hedge their bets through and through.


What you do is you pay 1 credit to rez your loaded Thomas Haas at step 4.3. Then, after you've been Vamped/Siphoned, you trash him during the paid abilities window after the run.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Jones
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
Agent Archer wrote:
beepers wrote:
Thomas being good against Vamp/Siphon is an iffy statement. Runners will want to hit you down the 0 so that you can't rez your ICE protecting it/trigger your trap, if said advanced card is one. So if you do get leveled to 0, you can't trigger his effect, so the money on him is lost. He's a trap for people who want to hedge their bets through and through.


What you do is you pay 1 credit to rez your loaded Thomas Haas at step 4.3. Then, after you've been Vamped/Siphoned, you trash him during the paid abilities window after the run.
He's got a point. You have a window to rez cards just before access, so you can rez Tommy just before he starts to Vamp you. The only issue there is the runner might next run on Thomas, but thankfully you just trash him instead of click-trash.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.